I think it is more of madness because she found out the guy she loved killed her father. She was so upset and did not realize she was drowning and she was going to die. I think it was not an act of suicide.
Negative image of women... I totally agree that all of the women in the book are dependent on men... You have never seen an instance where a woman was strong, especially without the presence of a man...
I think that Ophelia's death is part accident part suicide. She is singing as she drowns, but her singing almost seems to be apart of her madness. She has been through so much with Hamlet, and then with her father being killed, and this would be a way for her to get out of it. So it seems as if this is a piece of accident, madness, and suicide.
I believe that Ophelia's death was a suicide. The situations she is in with her father's death and Hamlet's false declarations of love have made her mad. The fact that she was singing when she drownded just shows that she truly is crazy. Ophelia couldn't handle her situation any longer and she decides to deal with it by committing suicide.
I believe that Ophelia's life has been destroyed to the point that she feels that she cannot live any lnger. All of the important people in her life have been, or are being, destroyed. Hamlet's gone mad, her father has been killed, Laertes is swallowed in his revenge. Her life has been taken from her. So, Ophelia feels that she must take her life.
Homw come the only "excuse" if you will that everyone has for the actions taken is madness. Hamlet's progress towards killing claudius has commonly been called crazy because of the way he's acting and everyone is saying maybe he is infact insane...i think that crazyness is just a scapegoat for all all the characters actions
I believe she purposely killed herself because she is "acting crazy" when it can be said that she is acting the most sane out of everyone. Her songs make sense and she's speaking truth, so I don't think she's gone crazy and she purposely wants to kill herself because she feels she has no reason to continue without her father and Hamlet.
I agree with Amy B, that her singing was because she was crazy. I mean the clip we saw from the film, she was not just singing happily she was crazy singing! And therefore Ophelia does not care or realize she is drowning.
maybe ophelia had motives...like maarie said she was pregnant... to kill her self, that would make her "life" easier if she was dead rather than having to live with the stress. Why does everyone think that every person in this story is insane..?
If Ophelia is pregnant, as Marie says, I feel very sorry for her that all of this happened. I am now feeling for her more now than I did before, and it explains a lot about how much she is struggling. I think this pregnancy is a way of Shakespeare showing how the world viewed women during this time, and how they were weak, and needed men for everything.
I agree with Marie that Ophelia is pregnant. I think that is why she is starting to act crazy. She realizes that she has really messed up and she may think it is the only way out.
I find Marie's point that Ophelia is pregnant very interesting. She was very mad that Hamlet said he would marry her and never did. Her anger could have been started from finding out that she is pregnant.
Pregnant? I thought about this back in Act 2, but didn't really act on it. It would make a lot of sense. Going back to what I said earlier, her life is now in shambles. She has no real relations with the father of her child. There is no substitute father figure for this child. She just feels that there is noone left in her life to take care of this kid. Maybe Ophelia takes her life to protect this child from a horrible life because she knows that she cannot give her child a decent life.
That's crazy that she could be pregnant. It completely makes sense thoug. How funny that none of us caught on. I don't understand why she would committ suicide though and kill herself and the baby. The only reason that I could find would be if she didn't want the baby to be "crazy" like Hamlet.
Steph- I agree completely with your comment..her possible pregnancy could be the final thing she could handle before she looses it completely..I don't think it is the MAIN reason she dies (if she did in fact commit suicide)as was mentioned in the coversation
oh riiiight kurt...you saw the whole thing coming..kidding, but ya if she was in fact pregnant it just gives her that much more of a reason to die. Her father was just killed by her boyfriend kinda, and he is also playing her for his own good. She is under and enourmous amount of stress and being pregnant would toss her over the edge, suicide would seem like a valid escape to her... shes not insane
In relation to davids comment, I thought that she was on Hamlets side the entire time. Even when he was calling her a prostitute and telling her pretty much to go to a whore house she was civil to him.
I don't really understand how she could not have commited suicide because everything around her seemed pretty set up for a nice death even down to what she was wearing. So I think it is pretty clear that she commited suicide.
Nice point, Zach. The lack of loyalty seems to be a reoccurring theme throughout Hamlet. No one can be trusted. Is this because of the power involved in the situation, or are these just a lowly people who cannot be trusted? In other words, would these people be so deceitful if the kingdom was not involved?
I agree with Kurt, I can see that Ophelia is pregnant. But since she and Hamlet do not talk, her child will not have a "father figure". And the child does not have a back up because her father is dead and Laertes is gone. She has no family to help her raise the child. She acts in way to protect the child from not haveing a male figure in its life.
Leanne, I disagree. All the women are told what to do and how to act. Therefore it is not their fault. The actions and words that they are told to do are not their own but that is all they know. From the time they are little they are conducted and played like puppets for the remainder of their lives.
I think women are portrayed as victims, yes, but in response to leanne's comment, they are obviously given/allowed enough power to make decisions that put them into situations to become victims..they ARE viewed as weak, wicked, worthless etc..but they obviously have enough power to get themselves into situations where the blame CAN be placed on them
Going off of Zach's point about distrust, I think Act Four almost all trust is lost. I mean if you look at Hamlet vs. everyone (except Horatio), Laertes vs. The King at first, Laertes is now going to murder Hamlet, etc.
With the whole relationships thing, I think that Shakespeare is saying that women are weak. Ophelia can't handle Hamlet's leaving her and Gertrude can't handle the death of old Hamlet, so she remarries. Ophelia reacts by committing suicide. These two actions that Shakespeare puts in the play show that women depend on the men and can't live on their own. Shakespeare could also be saying that women are selfish; Gertrude remarries for her own good and for selfish reasons.
Another important comparison of the children with their parents killed would be Hamlet, and the other men, versus Ophelia. This explains more into the role and status of women during this time period. The way that all the men act to their father's muder is to try and avenge the death of their father by killing the murderer, but the way that Ophelia reacts is to go crazy and end up killing herself, which as we have stated before in Oedupus, is a cowards way out. This is another portrayal of the weak female.
David wrote: "just because she is pushed over the edge doesnt mean shes crazy"
I totally agree. Just because she feels that suicide is the best way to get out of the situation she is stuck in, that doesn't mean she is crazy. She may think that she has no way out and is pushed over the edge of reason and driven to suicide, but she's not insane to think that suicide is her best option.
Hamlet should have done his actions quicker and not been beating areound the bush, I mean what Claire said, Laertes is going with it and not over analyzing it. He wants revenge now, not later but as quick as he can.
I agree with Matt when he says that Hamlet learns a huge lesson when Fortinbras's army comes to Denmark. The army came to accomplish a goal even though that goal does not have a big reward if they accomplish it. Hamlet now realizes that he has failed to take initiative with his plot to kill Claudius. He says that now his thoughts will be bloody, meaning he will finally carry out his plan.
Fate vs. Freewill- Could this maybe be why Hamlet paused to kill Claudius? What he giving the whole thing a second thought, and thinking maybe morally it would be wrong?
Caitlin, I don't neecessarily think that the women bring down the men, I think that them ne actually bring down the wpmen through their abuse and use of them to get ahead in life. I think that if anything the women are bringing down themselves and help the men achieve what the want.
We don't know this for sure but I don't think Foretenbras is going through the samething as Hamlet because he still has people on his side unlike Hamlet. He also has the throne which is something that I think Hamlet really does want.
steph- i dont necessarily think that Hamlet is holding back anymore, the way he handled the murdered polonius in the the queens room i think shows that he is finally about to do what he needs to do, that he is past the point of being cautious
Well Amy, Hamlet didn't go actually insane that fast. For the first part of his insanity that we saw he was pretending to make everyone think he was insane, remember? But yes definately, having your father die is a great change and can cause many problems.
I don't think it's a moral decision whether or not Hamlet wants to kill Claudius so much as I truly believe he is a weak character..He stands behind what he beleives, but there's no action behind all of the planning
Amy- i do think that women are portrayed in this play that they are weak and kind of lost after something bad happens. They do not know how to handle it. I mean look at Gertrude her husband dies and she re-marries right after the death. She did not know how to handle the death in the family and tried to fix it, but actually made it worse...
Here's the thing on Fate vs. Freewill: Hamlet did start the play with complete inaction, but ended up tyring to kill the King. That ended horribly and the king is still in power. Fortinbras is avenging......NOTHING. He is claiming a piece of worthless land, and not avenging his father's death
Reacting to Smith, Hamlet doesn't have the courage to avenge his father's death because deep down he knows that killing Claudius will cause his own downfall. Everyone fears for their own life, and I think that is holding Hamlet back.
I can agree with those who said that Hamlet is more calculating because he has no one to support him. Fortinbras has most of Norway behind him, and Laertes has Claudius driving him to carryout revenge. Hamlet has no support, no friends, and has a lot to lose. After all, if he doesn't get rid of Claudius somehow, he is forever stuck under Claudius' will.
Caitlin, but the only way that they bring down the men is by helping them with their selffish deeds, so I don't think that their intentions are to bring down the men and I don't think that they directly bring them down.
I think one reason that it was easy for Hamlet to kill Polonious is that he saw himself as a better man than Polonious, and he has trouble killing Claudius because Claudius was the one that killed Hamlet's hero, and it is harder for anyone to go up against something that they think is better than them.
Kurt-makes excellent point.Hamlet IS all alone and definitely feels alone in his beliefs about his mother, Claudius, Polonius, and the events that have recently taken place in his life..it's easier to act when you have support behind you..I don't care who you are..that can be applied to life today..it IS easier to act when you have encouragement behind you
If we are saying that there is a chain he that the stronger kill the weaker than I think Hamlet can't kill Claudious because he was able to kill King Hamlet and Hamlet thinks of himself as weaker than his father.
Claudius wanted to get rid of Hamlet because he was becoming a threat to him, and he knew that England would do him a favor, which could be possibly the murder of Hamlet.
The reason that Claudius wants to send Hamlet away is out of fear. Claudius knows that Hamlet is angered by his mother's remarraige and his taking of the throne. Claudius is not stupid, and he wants to get Hamlet as far away from him as possible.
Mark - He is defininetly avenging his father. This land was ripped from Fortinbras by old Hamlet, and now young Fortinbras is trying to get it back. No matter how little the land, its symbolic. Fortinbras is making a statement, he will act to show his allegiance to his father by getting back what was taking from him.
Why WOULDN'T Claudius and Laertes want Hamlet to die? What would be their motivation to even keep him around?? Looks like they have nothing holding them back to me
I think the ghost made himself visable to Horatio. Remember the queen could not see the ghost. We talked a little about the ghost showing himself to only those that he felt important. He probably didn't want to make Hamlet think he was crazy seeing his dead father, so he made himself visable to someone other than Hamlet.
I agree with Katie. Claudius has never loved his family. I mean hello he killed his own brother for the throne, and is now going to kill his nephew. What is next, gertrude, his one "true love?"
Leanne I think that the next person to go crazy will be Claudious because of all the things that have gone on. I think Hamlet has forced it upon him because he has brought it up when maybe Claudious had put it behind himself.
i actually think Gertrude /Claudius will go crazy. Because of the things that have gone on, Hamlet has foreced on both not just Claudius. I mean Ophelia acting weird and singing Gertrude is scared out of her mind. Knowing her son has killed Polonius, Claudius realizing Hamlet can kill
Dave, I don't think he has to go crazy but i think that most people would start to go crazy after someone else brings up the murder and then he is going to start thinking about what he has done.
Melissa - That could be it. She could be lying because she's scared to death of her insane son. I honestly think that the reason that Gerturde cannot see the ghost is because the ghost won't reveal himself to her. Seeing her murdered husband could drive her crazy. That could lead to another suicide, which goes against what the Ghost wants. The Ghost wants to keep as much of his kingdom intact.
scott..ya but couldnt he just feel fear for the situation, and that someone knows what he did. Like you said he doesn't have to go cray. I'm just saying i think we are all banking too hard on mental instability
I agree with Claire about Hamlet not even wanting the power of the king. He has never mentioned that he wanted to be in power, and with his characteristic of not acting on anything, he would be a horrible king and nothing would get accomplished. Claudius might even be a better king for everyone because he will make decisions and act on them.
I don't think Hamlet has even thought about the aftermath of his decisions..wouldn't he have said something somewhere about his consequences..good or bad??
Don't you think that Gertrude would have freaked out a little bit more if she actually had seen the ghost? I think that she, herself would be going crazy with guilt if she saw the ghost.
I have an idea. Why doesn't Laertes just kill Hamlet, then turn on Claudius and kill him. Then he can go get with Gertrude, we all know she is up for that! Laertes has no sons so he cannot be killed. it is the perfect idea.
Kurt i also think that she might go crazy thinking of what Hamlet might do because she couldn't she the ghost and doesn't know where Hamlet is getting his ideas of what to do and it seems to me that the next logical person to kill would be his mother.
I agree chris, hamlet doesnt want the throne, basically cause he is a wuss. He has no motivation, and no "guts" or backing for what he wants, or what he has done. Like you said , he would be a miserable king.
I think the play is about Hamlet's character instead of Fortinbra's character for a reason..Shakespeare has a reason for creating Hamlet to be someone that the readers can't look up to like they would Fortinbras
Like Sonny said, I think that Shakespeare makes Hamlet a character not concerned with power and self-interest. He is only concerned with revenge and getting his father out of purgatory. Shakespeare does this to make the reader or audience sympathize with Hamlet. If he was only power hungry and thought about gaining the throne of Denmark, the audience would not like Hamlet as a character nor care about his downfall.
That becomes the question. If the Ghost wants to keep his immediate family in power; then he will keep a crazy-man and a women who stands up for nothing as the king and queen. That is quite the conundrum the Ghost has placed himself in.
I agree with ashley that seems to be the only solution to the problem but maybe Gertrude should die also because every other "bad" person would be dead.
What happened to everyone feeling sorry for Hamlet because his father died and his mother married his uncle? I always thought that Hamlet was kind of not ambitious, and then you made me feel bad because his life is in ruins...
ok steph, i can agree that there is instability, but i just dont think that it is neccesarily insanity, i think that insanity is a really extreme. People can be confused, stressed, feel fear and be thrown off and not necessarily insane.
I agree with Levi and Sonny. Hamlet is not self-involved in any way. Perhaps he enjoys seeing other people's downfalls, he only enjoys it because it makes him feel like he is standing up for his father. Everything Hamlet does is based upon something his father wants.
China is right. Insanity is a big extreme, and I also think that it is craziness that is not in reaction to something else that has happened. Instead, I think someone must be diagnosed with insanity because of their own mental state that they were born with and never developed. They are more worried and paranoid about things whether or not they are important. I just think that Hamlet is desperate and crazy because he has lost his father, friends, power, mother, and pretty much anything else that has any value whatsoever. I think that we would all react the same way Hamlet did, but we wouldn't consider ourselves or each other insane.
92 Comments:
I agreee that Ophelia isn't of sane piece of mind... She has been rejected by Hamlet and on top of the her father fas just died.
Have we even found out that Ohpelia did in fact committ suicide, wasn't there some thought that she might have been killed.
I think it is more of madness because she found out the guy she loved killed her father. She was so upset and did not realize she was drowning and she was going to die. I think it was not an act of suicide.
Negative image of women... I totally agree that all of the women in the book are dependent on men... You have never seen an instance where a woman was strong, especially without the presence of a man...
I think that Ophelia's death is part accident part suicide. She is singing as she drowns, but her singing almost seems to be apart of her madness. She has been through so much with Hamlet, and then with her father being killed, and this would be a way for her to get out of it. So it seems as if this is a piece of accident, madness, and suicide.
I believe that Ophelia's death was a suicide. The situations she is in with her father's death and Hamlet's false declarations of love have made her mad. The fact that she was singing when she drownded just shows that she truly is crazy. Ophelia couldn't handle her situation any longer and she decides to deal with it by committing suicide.
I believe that Ophelia's life has been destroyed to the point that she feels that she cannot live any lnger. All of the important people in her life have been, or are being, destroyed. Hamlet's gone mad, her father has been killed, Laertes is swallowed in his revenge. Her life has been taken from her. So, Ophelia feels that she must take her life.
Homw come the only "excuse" if you will that everyone has for the actions taken is madness. Hamlet's progress towards killing claudius has commonly been called crazy because of the way he's acting and everyone is saying maybe he is infact insane...i think that crazyness is just a scapegoat for all all the characters actions
I believe she purposely killed herself because she is "acting crazy" when it can be said that she is acting the most sane out of everyone. Her songs make sense and she's speaking truth, so I don't think she's gone crazy and she purposely wants to kill herself because she feels she has no reason to continue without her father and Hamlet.
I think Ophelia has gone insane and you kind of see this link between emotional loss (losing your father) and irrational thought and/or actions
I agree with Amy B, that her singing was because she was crazy. I mean the clip we saw from the film, she was not just singing happily she was crazy singing! And therefore Ophelia does not care or realize she is drowning.
What do you guys think about her being pregnant?
maybe ophelia had motives...like maarie said she was pregnant... to kill her self, that would make her "life" easier if she was dead rather than having to live with the stress. Why does everyone think that every person in this story is insane..?
If Ophelia is pregnant, as Marie says, I feel very sorry for her that all of this happened. I am now feeling for her more now than I did before, and it explains a lot about how much she is struggling. I think this pregnancy is a way of Shakespeare showing how the world viewed women during this time, and how they were weak, and needed men for everything.
I agree with Marie that Ophelia is pregnant. I think that is why she is starting to act crazy. She realizes that she has really messed up and she may think it is the only way out.
I find Marie's point that Ophelia is pregnant very interesting. She was very mad that Hamlet said he would marry her and never did. Her anger could have been started from finding out that she is pregnant.
Pregnant? I thought about this back in Act 2, but didn't really act on it. It would make a lot of sense. Going back to what I said earlier, her life is now in shambles. She has no real relations with the father of her child. There is no substitute father figure for this child. She just feels that there is noone left in her life to take care of this kid. Maybe Ophelia takes her life to protect this child from a horrible life because she knows that she cannot give her child a decent life.
That's crazy that she could be pregnant. It completely makes sense thoug. How funny that none of us caught on. I don't understand why she would committ suicide though and kill herself and the baby. The only reason that I could find would be if she didn't want the baby to be "crazy" like Hamlet.
Steph- I agree completely with your comment..her possible pregnancy could be the final thing she could handle before she looses it completely..I don't think it is the MAIN reason she dies (if she did in fact commit suicide)as was mentioned in the coversation
oh riiiight kurt...you saw the whole thing coming..kidding, but ya if she was in fact pregnant it just gives her that much more of a reason to die. Her father was just killed by her boyfriend kinda, and he is also playing her for his own good. She is under and enourmous amount of stress and being pregnant would toss her over the edge, suicide would seem like a valid escape to her... shes not insane
In relation to davids comment, I thought that she was on Hamlets side the entire time. Even when he was calling her a prostitute and telling her pretty much to go to a whore house she was civil to him.
I agree that the women are portrayed as victims, but do these women bring on the situations that make them a victim?
I don't really understand how she could not have commited suicide because everything around her seemed pretty set up for a nice death even down to what she was wearing. So I think it is pretty clear that she commited suicide.
Nice point, Zach. The lack of loyalty seems to be a reoccurring theme throughout Hamlet. No one can be trusted. Is this because of the power involved in the situation, or are these just a lowly people who cannot be trusted? In other words, would these people be so deceitful if the kingdom was not involved?
I agree with Kurt, I can see that Ophelia is pregnant. But since she and Hamlet do not talk, her child will not have a "father figure". And the child does not have a back up because her father is dead and Laertes is gone. She has no family to help her raise the child. She acts in way to protect the child from not haveing a male figure in its life.
A nice death? scott?
Leanne, I disagree. All the women are told what to do and how to act. Therefore it is not their fault. The actions and words that they are told to do are not their own but that is all they know. From the time they are little they are conducted and played like puppets for the remainder of their lives.
I think women are portrayed as victims, yes, but in response to leanne's comment, they are obviously given/allowed enough power to make decisions that put them into situations to become victims..they ARE viewed as weak, wicked, worthless etc..but they obviously have enough power to get themselves into situations where the blame CAN be placed on them
Going off of Zach's point about distrust, I think Act Four almost all trust is lost. I mean if you look at Hamlet vs. everyone (except Horatio), Laertes vs. The King at first, Laertes is now going to murder Hamlet, etc.
With the whole relationships thing, I think that Shakespeare is saying that women are weak. Ophelia can't handle Hamlet's leaving her and Gertrude can't handle the death of old Hamlet, so she remarries. Ophelia reacts by committing suicide. These two actions that Shakespeare puts in the play show that women depend on the men and can't live on their own.
Shakespeare could also be saying that women are selfish; Gertrude remarries for her own good and for selfish reasons.
yea steph but what is the difference between stressed and insane, just because she is pushed over the edge doesnt mean shes crazy
PREGUNTA- what was the point of Hamlets speach... I just don't get it
Another important comparison of the children with their parents killed would be Hamlet, and the other men, versus Ophelia. This explains more into the role and status of women during this time period. The way that all the men act to their father's muder is to try and avenge the death of their father by killing the murderer, but the way that Ophelia reacts is to go crazy and end up killing herself, which as we have stated before in Oedupus, is a cowards way out. This is another portrayal of the weak female.
ok, steph i can buy that.
David wrote:
"just because she is pushed over the edge doesnt mean shes crazy"
I totally agree. Just because she feels that suicide is the best way to get out of the situation she is stuck in, that doesn't mean she is crazy. She may think that she has no way out and is pushed over the edge of reason and driven to suicide, but she's not insane to think that suicide is her best option.
Hamlet should have done his actions quicker and not been beating areound the bush, I mean what Claire said, Laertes is going with it and not over analyzing it. He wants revenge now, not later but as quick as he can.
I agree with Matt when he says that Hamlet learns a huge lesson when Fortinbras's army comes to Denmark. The army came to accomplish a goal even though that goal does not have a big reward if they accomplish it. Hamlet now realizes that he has failed to take initiative with his plot to kill Claudius. He says that now his thoughts will be bloody, meaning he will finally carry out his plan.
ZACH, you just told me you don't think the ghost is real...how confusing are you?
Fate vs. Freewill- Could this maybe be why Hamlet paused to kill Claudius? What he giving the whole thing a second thought, and thinking maybe morally it would be wrong?
Caitlin, I don't neecessarily think that the women bring down the men, I think that them ne actually bring down the wpmen through their abuse and use of them to get ahead in life. I think that if anything the women are bringing down themselves and help the men achieve what the want.
We don't know this for sure but I don't think Foretenbras is going through the samething as Hamlet because he still has people on his side unlike Hamlet. He also has the throne which is something that I think Hamlet really does want.
steph- i dont necessarily think that Hamlet is holding back anymore, the way he handled the murdered polonius in the the queens room i think shows that he is finally about to do what he needs to do, that he is past the point of being cautious
Well Amy, Hamlet didn't go actually insane that fast. For the first part of his insanity that we saw he was pretending to make everyone think he was insane, remember? But yes definately, having your father die is a great change and can cause many problems.
I don't think it's a moral decision whether or not Hamlet wants to kill Claudius so much as I truly believe he is a weak character..He stands behind what he beleives, but there's no action behind all of the planning
Amy- i do think that women are portrayed in this play that they are weak and kind of lost after something bad happens. They do not know how to handle it. I mean look at Gertrude her husband dies and she re-marries right after the death. She did not know how to handle the death in the family and tried to fix it, but actually made it worse...
Here's the thing on Fate vs. Freewill:
Hamlet did start the play with complete inaction, but ended up tyring to kill the King. That ended horribly and the king is still in power.
Fortinbras is avenging......NOTHING. He is claiming a piece of worthless land, and not avenging his father's death
Reacting to Smith, Hamlet doesn't have the courage to avenge his father's death because deep down he knows that killing Claudius will cause his own downfall. Everyone fears for their own life, and I think that is holding Hamlet back.
I can agree with those who said that Hamlet is more calculating because he has no one to support him. Fortinbras has most of Norway behind him, and Laertes has Claudius driving him to carryout revenge. Hamlet has no support, no friends, and has a lot to lose. After all, if he doesn't get rid of Claudius somehow, he is forever stuck under Claudius' will.
Caitlin, but the only way that they bring down the men is by helping them with their selffish deeds, so I don't think that their intentions are to bring down the men and I don't think that they directly bring them down.
I think one reason that it was easy for Hamlet to kill Polonious is that he saw himself as a better man than Polonious, and he has trouble killing Claudius because Claudius was the one that killed Hamlet's hero, and it is harder for anyone to go up against something that they think is better than them.
ZACH so are you saying only people that were affected or concerned with the kings death can see him?
Kurt-makes excellent point.Hamlet IS all alone and definitely feels alone in his beliefs about his mother, Claudius, Polonius, and the events that have recently taken place in his life..it's easier to act when you have support behind you..I don't care who you are..that can be applied to life today..it IS easier to act when you have encouragement behind you
then why does horatio see the ghost..did horatio have feelings for the king
Zach, but don't you think that Claudius is having a conflict in emotion with the murder?
If we are saying that there is a chain he that the stronger kill the weaker than I think Hamlet can't kill Claudious because he was able to kill King Hamlet and Hamlet thinks of himself as weaker than his father.
Claudius wanted to get rid of Hamlet because he was becoming a threat to him, and he knew that England would do him a favor, which could be possibly the murder of Hamlet.
Touche, but then why cant the queen see him? Is she not part of the "region"
The reason that Claudius wants to send Hamlet away is out of fear. Claudius knows that Hamlet is angered by his mother's remarraige and his taking of the throne. Claudius is not stupid, and he wants to get Hamlet as far away from him as possible.
Mark - He is defininetly avenging his father. This land was ripped from Fortinbras by old Hamlet, and now young Fortinbras is trying to get it back. No matter how little the land, its symbolic. Fortinbras is making a statement, he will act to show his allegiance to his father by getting back what was taking from him.
Why WOULDN'T Claudius and Laertes want Hamlet to die? What would be their motivation to even keep him around?? Looks like they have nothing holding them back to me
I think the ghost made himself visable to Horatio. Remember the queen could not see the ghost. We talked a little about the ghost showing himself to only those that he felt important. He probably didn't want to make Hamlet think he was crazy seeing his dead father, so he made himself visable to someone other than Hamlet.
well ashley i agree with that, its zach over here thats causing ghost issues
I agree with Katie. Claudius has never loved his family. I mean hello he killed his own brother for the throne, and is now going to kill his nephew. What is next, gertrude, his one "true love?"
Zach no one is picking on you, we are all helping you with your paper. :)
Leanne I think that the next person to go crazy will be Claudious because of all the things that have gone on. I think Hamlet has forced it upon him because he has brought it up when maybe Claudious had put it behind himself.
What if gertrude is lying and really can see the ghost. do you think that is possible?
scott, and everyone, why does claudius have to go crazy, the story is about a succession of craziness.
Ohpelia ashley?
is NOT about, my mistake
Gertrude seems to be the complete stereotypical woman of the time. She is weak, dumb, and a harlet.
i actually think Gertrude /Claudius will go crazy. Because of the things that have gone on, Hamlet has foreced on both not just Claudius. I mean Ophelia acting weird and singing Gertrude is scared out of her mind. Knowing her son has killed Polonius, Claudius realizing Hamlet can kill
Dave, I don't think he has to go crazy but i think that most people would start to go crazy after someone else brings up the murder and then he is going to start thinking about what he has done.
Melissa - That could be it. She could be lying because she's scared to death of her insane son. I honestly think that the reason that Gerturde cannot see the ghost is because the ghost won't reveal himself to her. Seeing her murdered husband could drive her crazy. That could lead to another suicide, which goes against what the Ghost wants. The Ghost wants to keep as much of his kingdom intact.
Katie I agree, but first of all...happen doesn't have 3 yes 3 p's. But yeah. Mother like son, they are both NINNY'S!
Haley- to hide things from Hamlet and as i said earlier she could be the next one to become crazy. you know?
scott..ya but couldnt he just feel fear for the situation, and that someone knows what he did. Like you said he doesn't have to go cray. I'm just saying i think we are all banking too hard on mental instability
I agree with Claire about Hamlet not even wanting the power of the king. He has never mentioned that he wanted to be in power, and with his characteristic of not acting on anything, he would be a horrible king and nothing would get accomplished. Claudius might even be a better king for everyone because he will make decisions and act on them.
I don't think Hamlet has even thought about the aftermath of his decisions..wouldn't he have said something somewhere about his consequences..good or bad??
oh i see Kurt nice point at the end. He does want his kingdom to still be intact but does he want his kingdom to be intact with good or bad people?
Don't you think that Gertrude would have freaked out a little bit more if she actually had seen the ghost? I think that she, herself would be going crazy with guilt if she saw the ghost.
I have an idea. Why doesn't Laertes just kill Hamlet, then turn on Claudius and kill him. Then he can go get with Gertrude, we all know she is up for that! Laertes has no sons so he cannot be killed. it is the perfect idea.
katie maybe you should work on your shkey hands it is ok!!
Kurt i also think that she might go crazy thinking of what Hamlet might do because she couldn't she the ghost and doesn't know where Hamlet is getting his ideas of what to do and it seems to me that the next logical person to kill would be his mother.
I agree chris, hamlet doesnt want the throne, basically cause he is a wuss. He has no motivation, and no "guts" or backing for what he wants, or what he has done. Like you said , he would be a miserable king.
I think the play is about Hamlet's character instead of Fortinbra's character for a reason..Shakespeare has a reason for creating Hamlet to be someone that the readers can't look up to like they would Fortinbras
Like Sonny said, I think that Shakespeare makes Hamlet a character not concerned with power and self-interest. He is only concerned with revenge and getting his father out of purgatory. Shakespeare does this to make the reader or audience sympathize with Hamlet. If he was only power hungry and thought about gaining the throne of Denmark, the audience would not like Hamlet as a character nor care about his downfall.
That becomes the question. If the Ghost wants to keep his immediate family in power; then he will keep a crazy-man and a women who stands up for nothing as the king and queen. That is quite the conundrum the Ghost has placed himself in.
I agree with ashley that seems to be the only solution to the problem but maybe Gertrude should die also because every other "bad" person would be dead.
What happened to everyone feeling sorry for Hamlet because his father died and his mother married his uncle? I always thought that Hamlet was kind of not ambitious, and then you made me feel bad because his life is in ruins...
ok steph, i can agree that there is instability, but i just dont think that it is neccesarily insanity, i think that insanity is a really extreme. People can be confused, stressed, feel fear and be thrown off and not necessarily insane.
I agree with Levi and Sonny. Hamlet is not self-involved in any way. Perhaps he enjoys seeing other people's downfalls, he only enjoys it because it makes him feel like he is standing up for his father. Everything Hamlet does is based upon something his father wants.
China is right. Insanity is a big extreme, and I also think that it is craziness that is not in reaction to something else that has happened. Instead, I think someone must be diagnosed with insanity because of their own mental state that they were born with and never developed. They are more worried and paranoid about things whether or not they are important. I just think that Hamlet is desperate and crazy because he has lost his father, friends, power, mother, and pretty much anything else that has any value whatsoever. I think that we would all react the same way Hamlet did, but we wouldn't consider ourselves or each other insane.
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