Friday, November 17, 2006

Hamlet Act 1 Fishbowl

148 Comments:

Blogger Marie P said...

I think that Hamlet is a problem play because Hamlet is faced with a decision, not a seeking of himself or a heroic act. Hamlet has to choose between two important things, not choose to discover victory or overcome pride.

November 17, 2006 11:01 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Having only read Act 1, i think it's a little difficult to distinguish which type of play it is. PLus what is the difference, what is a problem play?

November 17, 2006 11:01 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

November 17, 2006 11:01 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Tragic vs problem play:
Shows a lot of tragedy because we find out that Hamlet's father was murdered by his brother and now wants his son (Hamlet) to avenge the murderer. I think as we get into the play we will see more of back stabbing and betrayal among the family.

November 17, 2006 11:01 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Tragic or Problem Play? I think it is a little bit of both, it shows the problem of Hamlet's loss of his father, and maybe even his mother, and it's not quite his flaw that brings this on. Tragedy has to do with the main characters flaw that ultimatly brings his own ruination, which becomes true in the end, but in the begining it is not his fault. In the begining it's a problem play and it evolves into a tragedy.

November 17, 2006 11:02 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

I agree with what Levi is saying because the people can already see what his flaw is going to be even before anyone else can see it.

November 17, 2006 11:02 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

Tragic play or a problem play?
Ghost is the problem...
I agree with Levi that the play is going to be a tragic play and not just a problem play, because I believe that the play is geared towards the tragedies of Hamlet...

November 17, 2006 11:03 AM  
Blogger David L said...

I would say that Hamlet isn't a tragedy like the Greek tragedies such as Oedipus the King. While we see some elements of a tragedy, I think that Hamlet's characteristics have not yet been shown well enough to define the play as tragic. Hamlet is simply dealing with problems that affect him as of yet, and he hasn't shown any great flaws that could classify him as a tragic hero.

November 17, 2006 11:03 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

I believe Hemlet is more of a problem play. You see a man (hamlet)who was killed and his spirt can't rest so it apears at night as an aspiration telling his son hamlet jr. who killed him, which is his uncle claudious, which is his mothers new husband.

November 17, 2006 11:03 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

For it to be a tragic play, Hamlet the obvious main character needs to meet some form of tragedy, so far nothing has happened to him in order to call it a tragedy.

November 17, 2006 11:03 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Heroic or tragic character:
Hamlet seems more of a tragic hero. we're given information that his father wants him to kill his uncle. It's not something that is easy. there is a bigger secret behind the problem and i think Hamlet will get caught in the middle of it all.

November 17, 2006 11:03 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

Although it's still early in the play, I think Hamlet fits the tragic hero role, similar to Oedipus. He hasn't shown any heroic characteristics, but I think we will see his tragic flaw later on in the play. I would definitely say that the play is a tragic one with several problems going on, but I don't believe it is a problem play.

November 17, 2006 11:04 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

I'm not sure that Hamlet is a hero, he's not ultimatly sacrificing himself for the greater good. Killing Claudius isn't necassarily the best thing to do, because Claudius would be killed and Hamlet would be charged for murder, so they wouldn't have a king at all, in a time of war.
What is Hamlet saving exactly if he does kill Claudius?

November 17, 2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

I agree with david. We have only read ACT I. I don't think we can really tell if it is a tragic or a problem play. And how do we defne a "problem" play or a "tragic" play. I think later in the play we will find out...

November 17, 2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

The ghost seems to be Hamlet's father. Not only does Hamlet believe it is his father but so does some of Hamlet's friends who believe they saw his father. When the ghost talks to Hamlet he talks him about his death and what really happened.

November 17, 2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that it really is his father because it isn't only him that has seen the ghost

November 17, 2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

I think that the ghost is a very interesting aspect of this play. All events otherwise are very realistic until Shakespeare includes the image of a ghost. Why did Shakespeare decide to include this? Couldn't have he have revealed information about Daddy Hamlet in another way?\

November 17, 2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

I also agree with daved when he says it is hard to tell what type of play it is because it is to early in the play to find out we still have 4 Acts to go it could change from a problem play to a tradgic play.

November 17, 2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger CaitlinO said...

I feel that so far that this is a Tragic play. For it to be a tragic play, Hamlet soon needs to have a downfall. Everything that happened to him so far has been tragic because he has had no control over what has happened so far. His dad's death was out of his control, as well as his mom marrying Claudis. So far everything Hamlet has done has been Tragic and not Heroic.

November 17, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

Hamlet can be considered a hero. He feels cheated and wrong by the things around him. If Cladius killed his father, then in his mind taking revenge would be his way of setting things right. I think that would make him a hero to some degree.

November 17, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

i think it is deffinantly a problem play right now because he is dealing with the ghost of his father and the war that is going to be starting up between him and young fortinbras, also falling in love with ophelia

November 17, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

The ghost is not imagined because there are several people who are not struck by the tragedy that Hamlet is. I agree with Katie, his friends saw it first, they didn't just go along with it.

November 17, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

I think that Hamlet is a tragedy because it is very comparable to Oedipus. Hamlet's father was killed, and Oedipus's father was killed. I predict that the outcome between the two will be the same because they are both starting out the same way. Also, I think that Hamlet's vow to avenge the murderer as Steph said, is the same as when Oedipus promised to find the murderer and kill him.

November 17, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

Good though Marie. Why would Shakespeare bring the dad back? Maybe to lead to some of his downfall?

November 17, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

It is too early to tell if Hamlet is a hero. I get a vibe that he is similar to Oedipus.

November 17, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that the ghost will only speak to Hamlet because he knows Hamlet and trusts him and he knows that the people of Denmark trust him.

November 17, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

It is very interesting that the only person that the ghost will talk to is his son. Why is the ghost comfortable revealing himself to anyone but will only talk to Hamlet. It's clear that he asks Hamlet to take revenge but why wouldn't the ghost choose to tell everyone that Claudius murdered him?

November 17, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger David L said...

I think that possibly Hamlet's downfall might later be partially due to his own father's lust for revenge rather than Hamlet's. Although we don't yet know how his downfall comes about, I think if the ghost had never appeared and asked Hamlet to get revenge for him, then Hamlet might never become a tragic hero. This also relates back to the play as a problem play, because Hamlet's father's ghost creates a problem for Hamlet to deal with rather than an inner trait of Hamlet creating a problem for him.

November 17, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

I think that the ghost of his dad represents the past "haunting" Hamlet. Hamlet cannot let go of the past events until he can avenge why his father is still haunting him.

November 17, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

Steph why wouldn't his freinds go along with the ghost?

November 17, 2006 11:08 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

Ghost is really Hamlet's father?
I had this same question as well, but now that amy has said that the ghost only talks to Hamlet makes me think that the ghost is really his father.

November 17, 2006 11:08 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

I think that his father is only talking to him because no one else is going to understand what his dad is saying. if they had such a close relationship before he died then i dont think that his dad would want to talk to anyone else but Hamlet. so i think that the ghost is really his father guiding Hamlet to make the right choices

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

I agree with Scott. I think that the Ghost is almost imagined, as if it is just a way for him to speak his mind and think out the situation. Hamlet evaluates and problem solves through the Ghost. For example, I the Ghost never really answers Hamlet's in depth thoughts, instead, it makes Hamlet think out the problem.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

The king is worried about corruption. Obviously he doesn't feel like he can trust many people after his own brother killed him and his wife married his brother. He will only talk to Hamlet because he knows that he can trust him, and that he will set things right.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Leaders made a good point that Hamlet could be making it up. He was close to his father and this could be an outlet for Hamlet to find some truth or any reason.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

So far I don't think that Hamlet is like the typical tragic play. In Oedipus it was immediately obvious that he possesed many tragic hero qualities that would eventually lead to his downfall.However, the reader has not seen any such qualities in Hamlet so far. Hamlet just deals with the problems he is faced with, he doesn't really have any flaws that hinder him or hold him back yet.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

I think shakespeare uses the ghost because it is a dirct revelation of who muredered him. Coming directly from the ghost of Hamlet it means more, because if it passed along from stories, it may not be as believable.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

The ghost does add a intersting aspect to the play. He does create a conflict. Hemalet is the only one who can see the ghost. Other people might thinkg Hamlet is crazy in the head and not believe him. Might thinkg he is making stuff up.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

I don't think that the ghost is a scapegoat for Hamlet. I think that it is real and Hamlet is to blame for his actions.

November 17, 2006 11:09 AM  
Blogger Richw said...

I think this play is a tragedy because although in the beginnig the death of his father and the remarriage of his mother isn't his fault, he becomes consumed by revenge against Claudius which evetually leads to his downfall. His own obsessiveness and anger is his flaw, well part of it anyway.

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

WAIT QUESTION!!!! Did Hamlets uncle (who married his mom) kill his dad, i didnt catch on to that....

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger CaitlinO said...

I agree with David L. In that I believe that Hamlet's downfall will have something to do with his obsession to avenge his father's death. Maybe something to do with pushing everyone and everything else away, and only concentrating on his hatred towards Claudis.

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

I think that the ghost stands up for Gertrude because he still loves her, even though she denied him. I think that Shakespeare is trying to prove the loyalty and strength of love between characters, later seen in the relationship between Ophelia and Hamlet.

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

I agree with what Katie said about the ghost not telling Hamlet not to be mad at his mother. If Hamlet was so driven by revenge that the ghost was a figment of his imagination, then would the ghost have used that logic?

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

I think that by telling Hamlet not to be mad at his mother, it shows the humbleness of the king... thus making the relationship that Hamlet shares with his father stronger... a justified healthy father-son relationship?

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

Could Hamlet's tragic flaw be that he lives for revenge for the rest of his life? It says in Act I that he will no longer fill his mind with meaningless quotes from books, etc but that the words of the ghost will consume his thoughts. Is that foreshadowing his flaws in the future?? living the past possibly??

November 17, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that maybe Hamlet has some bitterness towards his uncle and the ghost might be made up as an excuse for Hamlet's bitterness towards him.

November 17, 2006 11:12 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Haley- I think its because Hamlet would be following a supernatural occurence to god knows where, they didn't want their friend to get hurt after all the tragedy that has already occured in their family. All of his friends see it before he does, and they tell him about after seeing it several times.

November 17, 2006 11:12 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

As for the question of whether or not the ghost is the ghost of Hamlet's father, I do believe that he is. The ghost stands up for and defends Hamlet's mother and many of the other characters believe that he is the ghost.

November 17, 2006 11:12 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

who else does hamlet have to blame but claudius??

November 17, 2006 11:12 AM  
Blogger David L said...

If the dead King didn't want to hurt the Queen, why would he have Hamlet seek revenge on Claudius? This would only give more grief to the Queen, and most likely condemn Hamlet as well.

November 17, 2006 11:13 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

Matt's comment is basically the saying "Hate the sin, not the sinner." I think that Hamlet's comments on page 29 prove that Hamlet loves his family, but he focuses his hatred towards Claudius because he is an easy scapegoat.

November 17, 2006 11:13 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

IS the goast of hamlet real?i believe it is just a apiration he has made up hin his head to give reason for his fathers death. You see how stong his bond to his father, is the idea of making up this goast is not to face fetched? People do crazy things when they need answers, they can even go as far as believeing other people telling him they saw the goast when they never really saw it.the idea of this is just resasonable as of him seeing his fathers goast.

November 17, 2006 11:13 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Well hamlet could blame his mother too, claudius didnt make her marry him she also consented to marry him, its a two way thing

November 17, 2006 11:13 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

Why isn't Hamlet's father mad at his wife but Hamlet is furious with her for marrying Cladius so quickly after his father's death?

November 17, 2006 11:14 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

Didn't Ms Smith say that was a normal re-marrige back then?

November 17, 2006 11:14 AM  
Blogger CaitlinO said...

Going along with Hamlet not being or being mad at his mother. It makes me question: Do you think Hamlet's mother had something to do with his father's death?

November 17, 2006 11:14 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Hamlet and Oedipus both have these similar situations where they become jealous and angry with a parent figure. I don't think Hamlet knows exactly what to do with what has happened to him. He is angry and upset and confused but i don't think he knows what he is going to do. He doesn't know how to react or respond with his mother's marriage to his uncle and his father's death.

November 17, 2006 11:14 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

I agree with jeff, kinda. It is easier to place the blame on someone else, especially when it is someone that you feel has betrayed you, and i think thats how Hamlet feels towards Claudius because he married his brothers wife right after he died. id be mad.

November 17, 2006 11:15 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

I think Hamlet is still learning how he should deal with the situation of is mom and Cladius. He seems to take it on other people around him. He takes a lot out on his mom. He is very outraged with his mom, and does not understand how he could love his father so much and then get married 2 months after his death. As Smith said, he would rather die then live in this situation.

November 17, 2006 11:15 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that Hamlet is immediatly defensive of his father and doesn't even think about the reasons his uncle might have had to kill his father.

November 17, 2006 11:15 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

Hamlet really looks up to his father, so I don't think he wants to be angry towards anyone related with him. It is interesting that Hamlet's mother "betrays" the family by quickly marrying another man, yet Hamlet demonstrates his anger more towards Claudius.

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

Hamlet blames Claudius for his problems rather than his mother because he feels a certain bond through blood to his mother. I think he feels like he can't really openly blame and hate his mother because she's his mother. It's much easier to dump your problems on someone you have no relationship with, than with the woman he has raised you and you have known your whole life. Not only all that, but I think that Hamlet feels that his mother loved his mother so much that direspecting her in any way would be shameful and dissapointing to his father.

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger Kyle G said...

For someone who has such a close relationship with his mother, it is hard for him to be angry at her. Whereas Claudius caused everything that broke up his family, so obviously he would be much angrier at him. He blames Claudius for everything, even his mother's wrong doings. Yet he still blames her for much as well, but obviously Claudius is the bigger problem in his eyes.

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger Richw said...

I think the king realizes that Gertrude is only with Claudius because she needed to find something to fill the hole that Hamlet sr. originally filled and that in order for real healing after the murder is to just confront the murderer and confront her true feelings.

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Amy K.- good question. I think that it does foreshadow a little into the future. The knowledge of the past will destroy Hamlet. Kind of like Jeff said, he's going to use Claudius as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in his life, and the hatred from his past, will destroy his life.

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

I don't think that the ghost loves the queen at all... I think that he is the link that connects Hamlet to finding his heroic qualities... I agree that women are however a weak symbol put throughout the play...

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Caitlin=, you make a good point, is it possible that hamlet's mother had something going on with Hamlet sr's brother before his death. Maybe she wanted Hamlet gone so she could be with claudius.

November 17, 2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

Sophocles and Shakespeare both demonstrate their feelings towards women through their stories. Both of these writers show that women are weak and are the reason for the downfall of love and relationships.

November 17, 2006 11:17 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Is Shakespeare showing that women are the downfall? Smith mentioned that in his plays he does not portray women with a good image.
I think Shakespeare is trying to get at that the mother (Gertrude) does not hold strong qualities. She remarries almost immediatly and to her own brother in-law.

November 17, 2006 11:17 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

I think that Hamlet doesn't know how to deal with his mother's marriage and that is why the ghost is coming into play. Whether it is his father or its just something he made up, i think it is coming to help him in some way.

November 17, 2006 11:17 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

Is it just sterio typical of the time to portray women as being week or is it just how Shakespeare needs the women to be in order to set up his plays in the way he wants?

November 17, 2006 11:17 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

Thats a interesting idea, but what would she have to gain from that? And wouldn't the ghost have said something about that then?

November 17, 2006 11:18 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

I had the same question as Caitlin. Is there a possibility that Hamlet's mother is behind King Hamlet's death? I mean she moved on quickly and does not show nay emotion on her husbands death. Did she use King Hamlet for something?

November 17, 2006 11:18 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

David if your righat and Hamlets mother did have an interaction with Claudius' before Old Hamlet died that would turn the play into possibly a tragic play....

November 17, 2006 11:18 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

Is Shakespeare saying that women are a downfall because they are intelligent and cunning or because they are weak and brainwashed?

November 17, 2006 11:19 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

Leanne - How is the Ghost humble? I think that being humble is not getting revenge. If the ghost was humble he would not seek Hamlet out to get revenge over Claudius.

November 17, 2006 11:19 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

Sorry I was talking about Hamlet's mother and the possibility of her involved in the murder in my last post.

November 17, 2006 11:19 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that Hamlet's mother was potrayed as a ignorant and Hamlet's father defends her actions because she isn't that smart.

November 17, 2006 11:20 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

I think Matt poses a good question. Hamlet's idolization of his father will lead him to constant inferiority, belittling, and constant failure. Hamlet will never be able to live up to his father's figure because he puts so much pressure on himself. He sets himself up for failure, destruction, and downfall.

November 17, 2006 11:20 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

I agree i think the ghost is not humble and he is in the play for some other reason.

November 17, 2006 11:20 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

It's hard to follow who is right or giving fair advice throughout act 1. It seems like some of the characters seem hypocritical and don't even take their own advice.

November 17, 2006 11:20 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Yeah, Shakespeare makes women not only weak but stupid too. The mother doesn't see that Claudius is murderer, she doesn't see that Hamlet is angry with her, she's weak because she could'nt live without a new husband for even a month. Women just rely on men in all of these tragedies. They aid in the downfall of the main male character, they pull them down farther.

November 17, 2006 11:20 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Kurt says that Hmalet is more mad at his mothers decision than he is at her...I can agree, but when you disagree with a decision someone makes you tend to disagree with them as well. you cant be mad at someones decision and not be mad at them.

November 17, 2006 11:21 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

On the topic with Laretes and Ophelia, Do Laertes and Ophelia have a good relationship? Would you want to have your brother/ sister talk to you like that, when s/he is not that much better than you?

November 17, 2006 11:21 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Yeah, Shakespeare makes women not only weak but stupid too. The mother doesn't see that Claudius is murderer, she doesn't see that Hamlet is angry with her, she's weak because she could'nt live without a new husband for even a month. Women just rely on men in all of these tragedies. They aid in the downfall of the main male character, they pull them down farther.

November 17, 2006 11:21 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

Emily - You're right about hypocrites. Laertes has already been called a hypocrite by his sister Ophelia.

November 17, 2006 11:21 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

Jeff makes a good point. That then sets Hamlet up for a tragic hero doesn't it? Make the play a tragic play.

November 17, 2006 11:21 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

i think that looking up to his father to such a high degree is in a way unhealthy for Hamlet. He so respects and loves him and almost worships him, he is setting such a high bar for himself to live up to that there's no way he can achieve it. Trying to live up to his father is only going to end with failure in Hamlet's mind, he will never really be as great.

November 17, 2006 11:21 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I agree with Katie because Hamlet could really be just searching for a trustworthy person to relate to.

November 17, 2006 11:22 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

We have a lot of book to read still, Hamlet might turn into a hero. We'll see.

November 17, 2006 11:22 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

I believe that the father son relationships are still prominant in todays time. I know the my father and I have a stonger relationship than my mother and I just because it is easyier to relate to someone that is the same gender as you who has gone threw the same things and thinks the same. I believe that the relationship and the wanting to find reasons for why is father died is not out of line but its just the bond that naturally forms between father and son.

November 17, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Is it possible that the ghost comes back and is only claiming that he was murdered by claudius to spite his wife?

November 17, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

I think it's hard to determine if Hamlet is a hero yet. We aren't sure of what exacty is going on. I think we will get more into his downfall when we figure out how he starts to react and put forth his actions according to what he heard from the ghost.

November 17, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

Hamlet isn't a hero yet because he has not been thrust into a situation that requires his to be one. He is much younger than Oedipus, but I do believe Hamlet has heroic qualities.

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

I think that this proves that the ghost is imagined. I think that this proves that Hamlet is going crazy, and his conscience, or ghost, is the only thing that keeps him with reality and makes him act in a slightly rational way.

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

I agree with Scott. I already relate to Hamlet, Ophilia, and Laertes much more than I ever did with any characters in Oedipus. That's why I'm so confused about the Ghost that Shakespeare has added. No one can relate to that.

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

i agree with marie, he JUST lost his dad, what else is he suppose to do but grieve for his dad, but later on when he finds out exactly how his dad died hes going to want to take action on it

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

I think that it is way to early to judge Hamlet about being a hero or not, this is only act one and we still haven't seen much of him and what he is all about.

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

Hamlet seems that he needs help on many things. He takes advice from the ghost and other people around him. Can he do anything on his own? Can he turn himself into a hero? Would he be able to handle making decisions on his own?

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

I know everyone has agreed that Hamlet is not a hero, but if you stretch it a little, could his heroic quality be that he stands by his beliefs no matter the obstacles and what is going on around him? He IS a whiner, but is he trying to stand by what he thinks is the right thing to do?

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

Jeff, other people saw that ghost before Hamlet did.

November 17, 2006 11:25 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

I think that the leaders made a good point about Hamlet's leadership qualities. When you really look back on all of Hamlet's actions he really hasn't taken any huge respects or done anything extraordinary throughout the book. He does what he is told, and he seems almost weak and lazy the way he talks about killing himself because things aren't going right. Rather than living heroically and trying to solve the problems in his life, he contemplates just ending it the easy way and killing himself.

November 17, 2006 11:25 AM  
Blogger CaitlinO said...

Going along with the hero disscussion. In the other tragic hero plays. In the beginning, it tells of them being a hero before, and then The downfall occurs. So far in Hamlet he has not been heroic at all. I wonder if he will do something that makes him heroic or not.

November 17, 2006 11:25 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

I think overtime if he had not seen the ghost Hamlet would have taken action in some way. Amy said that it is a sin to kill yourself so Hamlet will find another way to find justice or feel that he has done something to make the problem justified.

November 17, 2006 11:26 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

where does the ghost tell Hamlet to take revenge? just curious, I can't really find it or understand it

November 17, 2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

He is a tragic hero but only because of his fate of being in such a high position.

November 17, 2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Emily- i think that might be the end, hamlets downfall, when he gives in to sin and murders claudius, it is the best way for him to seek justice.

November 17, 2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Tragic flaws: Hamlet's downfall would be more noticed and greater. he comes from a royal family and he is the extraordinary person compared to the average person then. When he takes action or does anything he is watched by everyone.

November 17, 2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

jeff- I don't believe that is the only reason his story is tragic. Tradegy can occur to everyone, I think that Hamlet's high position just makes it more dramatic.

November 17, 2006 11:28 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

It's very necessary that a tragic hero be in a place of leadership. If the story of Oedipus was about a measly peasant who didn't know who his real parents were, the story would be nonexistent, no one would care about his problems because they wouldn't affect anyone but himself. However, by Oedipus being a King in a position of high power where all eyes are on him, everything he does has a domino effect. It will always get around to others and it will more than often affect those he's ruling over. The same can be said for Hamlet. Hamlet's character has to be an important person because it makes a much bigger impact on other characters in the novel, and makes a bigger point to the reader.

November 17, 2006 11:28 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

like Katie said Hamlet kinda has to prove himself as strong, not weak and lazy like clair said

November 17, 2006 11:28 AM  
Blogger CaitlinO said...

David- good question. The ghost could be lieing just to make his wife angry. Or to make her feel sorry for him.

November 17, 2006 11:29 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that if Hamlet hadn't seen the ghost he wouldn't have been so upset because he wouldn't have known that it was his uncle who killed his father yet he wouldn't have wanted peace with his mother.

November 17, 2006 11:29 AM  
Blogger Richw said...

Hamlet is blinded by his anger and the ghost is a physical representation of that, feels it is his duty to get revenge.

November 17, 2006 11:29 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

Marie, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think that they were visually seen. I think that the Ghost is a symbol of a higher being that helps in rationalizing everyone's ideas. The Ghost is like a conscience, everyone has access to it. But everyone is in such shock, that they imagine it's "physical appearance."

November 17, 2006 11:29 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

going along with chris's question. I think that Shakespeare is trying to show everyone that royality doesn't always have the upper hand becuase they are people just like everyone and they all make mistakes and just because they are born royal doesn't mean that they have a the qualities that a person of royality has.

November 17, 2006 11:30 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

I don't think that ghost ever calls for revenge but rather tells Hamlet what would be the best for his people... He doesn't say you should kill Claudius, he just says that Claudius should not be in power...

November 17, 2006 11:30 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

scott just said how its a let down to people seeing how royal familys not being perfect are a let down to the common folks. yet this is not the first time we have seen this. we saw the falling apart of Oedipus and his family and revealing to the pesents and then running because the are afraid letting people see the true person inside.Is something similar starting to happen with Hamlet and his family?

November 17, 2006 11:31 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

I just think it's interesting that we have the theme of religion and then we have a ghost, a idea that doesn't fit into the common idea of religion. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that one). This connects to the idea of Beowulf idea of christianity vs. paganism.

November 17, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

What is up with Shakespeare and "Family Grudges"? He seems to write about them a lot. What is he trying to say about families, or even countries? It's interesting to think of this in a higher sense.

November 17, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

Jeff- I totally didn't see the ghost that way but I definitely think that that's a good possibility and makes a lot of sense... I think that the ghost is used to rationalize, but ironically it is the thing that could make Hamlet go crazy.

November 17, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger Richw said...

Hamlet feels though that he should get revenge not only because he killed Hamlet sr. but that he may have taken advantage of Gertrude when she was grieving and used that to get in power.

November 17, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

I totally agree with what the leaders just said; the fact that Hamlet was born into royalty does not at all mean that he will make a great ruler. Leadership skills are acquired and learned, not inherited. Maybe Shakespeare is making a political statement about royalty and leaders during his times. A person born into royalty may not have the same capabilities for leading a country as an ordinary joe out on the street. Shakespeare may be wondering why people during those times can be led by incompetant and ignorant rulers, just because of their blood.

November 17, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that now that the king has been killed he wants to finish the fight that killed him. He just now has to do it through his son.

November 17, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

If Claudius is being 2-faced I think it's because he needs to gain respect and trust from the people before he changed things.

November 17, 2006 11:35 AM  
Blogger Richw said...

Family Grudges in Shakespeare's plays could represent the fact that many people do not come to terms with their heritage and their parents

November 17, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

Claudius is the type of guy who wants something and is using Hamlet's mom to get it. He is like the guy in movies who marries the lady for money or to hurt somone! he is scum

November 17, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Mrs. Smith makes a really good point because Claudius kills his brother marries his sister in law and then calls his nephew his son. It's a huge insult to try and relate himself to the family of a man he killed. He's the rightful aire to the thrown. Does Hamlet even want the thrown? Maybe not quite at this time? Does he believe in the war that his father was fighting?

November 17, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger CaitlinO said...

If Cladius killed the king, Do you think that The king and Cladius had something like a bigger fight about something else that made him do it? Besides Hamlet being the king, it seems like there is something deeper that would make him kill him. Maybe the King did something to Cladius??

November 17, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

I think Hamlet may just want to get away from is situation, that he wants to get away from his royal status and just run off with Ophelia. He is in college, a time of discovery for most people, and doesn't want to deal with the issues of the crown.

November 17, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger MarinaB said...

no we shouldnt balme Hamlet, like msr. smith just said what is he suppose to say, he had been away at school for so long.

November 17, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

Going on what Claire says... If leadership is acquired and learned maybe shakespeare thinks the same thing... so by writing of these aristocracies, Shakespeare is satyrizing them through their pitiful "family feuds."

November 17, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

Claudius tells Hamlet not to mourn because he doesn't want that to haunt him. His guilt will continue as long as he is reminded about Hamlet Sr.

November 17, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger DaveV said...

Hamlet is a wimp. Not a hero.

November 17, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

I disagree that Hamlet is the bad guy. Yea he has not done anything for his father's death but i think he is still learning and is not quite sure what to do!! he is learning a lesson HELLO!!

November 17, 2006 11:38 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Claudius wants the power and wants the things around him to be perfect. During this time that the mother and Hamlet should be mourning the death Claudius jumps in and takes what he wants. When people are at their low they aren't going to have their strongest guard up at that time.

November 17, 2006 11:38 AM  
Blogger Haley C said...

I think that Claudius wanted the kingdom, so he killed Old Hamelt and married his wife to get what he wanted. I agree with Melissa that is a scum!

November 17, 2006 11:38 AM  
Blogger Marie P said...

Hahaha David I completely agree. Hamlet needs to buff up and get the revenge that his father cannot.

November 17, 2006 11:38 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

Claudius' intentions are nothing but selfish. He murdered his own brother, and then marries his ex- sister in law so that he can now become King. He's a very phony and fake person, the way he pretends to care that his brother is dead when he is the one who murdered him. Claudius is also very demeaning to Hamlet. Hamlet is the one who was supposed to inherit the throne and Claudius took that from him. Claudius puts Hamlet down constantly but he does it in a sly way. He calls him his own son and calls him a small child. All of Claudius' actions and words reveal what a dark and evil character he is.

November 17, 2006 11:39 AM  
Blogger asaetveit said...

Smith brought up the question of cludious and what we see of him. I see him as being a cocky arrogant guy. he kills Hamlet then he marries his wife. Hamlet jr. sits on the side and is embarrased by cludiuos saying that he is still a little boy and know that claudious has beded his mother Hamlet jr. can't powerless.

November 17, 2006 11:39 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

Hamlet has no clue what he should be doing...he is lost

November 17, 2006 11:39 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

I just don't think that Hamlet really wants the crown. Is that hios desire or is it Claduius's?

November 17, 2006 11:40 AM  
Blogger Richw said...

wow i just saw a strong connection to the Lion King, the one Claudius wants power and he degrades Hamlet because he knows that Hamlet may want to come to power, so Hamlet must find his inner strength, Claudius simply marryed Gertrude to get the throne

November 17, 2006 11:40 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Claudius is completle two faced, but if Hamlet kills Claudius, he will just be as bad as Claudius. Hamlet doesn't even try to stand up to Claudius, or tell his mother of the murder, if he told more people he might have a worthy ally that could help him regain the thrown without sinking to Claudius's level.

November 17, 2006 11:40 AM  
Blogger hannahm said...

I think that Claudius may even be rubbing it in Hamlets face that he had the kingdom and his mother as his queen.

November 17, 2006 11:41 AM  
Blogger ClaireL said...

I completely agree with what katie is saying. I think that Hamlet's refusal to stand up to Claudius shows a weakness on his part. He needs to have to confidence and respect for himself to stand up to him and to stop allowing him to push him around and insult him. Even though Claudius' position as King makes it difficult to stand up to him, Hamlet really doesn't seem to have anything to lose. It's obvious that he doesn't value his life, he talks about commiting suicide all the time, so even if was to lose his life, at least he would lose it doing something honorables rather than commiting an action as cowardly and weak as suicide.

November 17, 2006 11:42 AM  
Blogger ashleym said...

I completely agree with claire. Claudius is extremely selfish and evil. Why else would someone kill his own brother, because of they benefit from it. He tries to put on an act that he is sad for his brothers death, but he has no concious. He doesnt care he is happy that Hamlet is dead, he is now the king. I also agree with what Steph said earlier about how Shakespeare portrays women in his plays. In Oedipus Jocasta had an endless amount of hints that she had married her own son but it wasnt until the end that she finally realized it. In Hamlet, again the truth is right in front of Hamlet's mother, but we can predict that there will be many more signs and that if she does learn that Claudius is the killer, it won't be until the end.

November 20, 2006 9:57 AM  

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