posted by annes at 9:16 AM
This act was really revealing for the plot, as the murder of Polonius means that Hamlet has reached the point of no return in his plot for revenge.
Thats true, Hamlet has really almost become truly insane at this piont too.
I agree with matt that this has certainly signified that Hamlet has pretended to be crazy enough that it has actually driven him mad.
The question was what moral lessons are we supposed to be learning? I think that Shakespere is trying to teach us that sanity is important and that we need to keep our heads straight in stressful situations.(PS HEY HANNAH! Hope You're Having Fun!)
I'm not really sure if Hamlet has gone insane yet because killing Polonius seemed to be more like self-defence since he was spying on him.
Hamlet shows that he stresses moral integrity by the fact that he is mad at his mother. She remarried very quickly, and this is seen as immoral in the eyes of Hamlet. When he says, "She'll keep her word", he is discussing that the woman in the play says she wont remarry, but Hamlet uses sarcasm to say that she definitely will, much like his mother.
Many of the moral issues of Hamlet revolve around marriage and chastity. Ophelia and Gertrude are both believed to have sinned by sleeping with men in an 'unholy' manner, Gertrude being her brother in law and Ophelia sleeping with Hamlet out of wedlock
There are a lot of flaws in the moral integrity of women in this book. There are still questions of Ophelia and Hamlet's relationship but Gertrude's integrity is obviously flawed and damned. Hamlet shows a judgemental view of the integrity of a woman.
Matt I think is definetly correct in Hamlet has now become truly insane and paranoid, you can only pretend to be something for so long until it becomes part of you.
I think Hamlet is on the verge of becoming insane. He is ready to act on his vengence at any given moment but knows that there needs to be a precise moment to kill Cladius.
Another moral lesson that Shakespeare might be trying to teach us is that revenge can lead to your own insanity.
I agree with Scott, Hamlet's not crazy he's just angry and out to get revenge, and everyone that should be on his side is on Claudius' side and spying on all of his conversations.
I think that a moral lession that can be learned, like what clair said that when claudius is confessing that he killed Hamlets dad, he is now frightened by what he did and has no idea what to do. I think that it is teaching that you kinda have to be careful for what you wish for, he wanted to be king and so he commited a sin that is haunting him now.
I think a big moral lesson in Hamlet is truth, because it seems like everyone so far has lied or has been spying on someone. I think showing how it harms and leads to something bad is showing that this is a moral lesson.
Emily, are you sure he hasn't already gone insane? At the end of the act he is talking about the shapes of clouds to someone who knows that he is not pretending to be crazy. I think he has passed the line between acting and actually being crazy.
I think the lesson is more that revenge will lead you to your own downfall, not necassarily your insanity
Scott made a good piont and I think it's really hard to evaluate Hamlet because none of us have been through what he has.(PS thanks Marie!)
Steph, maybe they're one in the same. Maybe revenge leads to insanity.
I think Hamlet went insane during this act because he kills Polonius and he doesn't really care. Before, he was careful not to make a mistake and now he makes a mistake and doesn't care.
personally i dont see morals as being a big issue at this time. gertrude is married to her ex-husbands brother only months after his deateh, ophelia is sleeping with hamlet and they'ren not married, and hamlet is spending majority of his time trying to plan the murder of his step dad... i dont really see how morals have any role in their actions
So is Shakespeare saying that revenge isn't worth the risk of going insane?
I agree with Marie. I believe that Hamlet has already gone insane. I mean he did kill Polonius, and that in itself makes him insane.
That's a really good point Mark. The murder of Polonious is definately a turning point in the plot. Hamlet would regualarly be devistated by the thought of a undeserved murder.
Marie- I think that Hamlet says things in a certain way in order to see two sides of a story or argument, I don't think it's him being crazy, just him comparing two different ideas to make a point, and he has fun talking intelligently in front of people he believes to be stupid
I think Shakespeare is saying that man cannot rightfully avenge another with blood that, the wrong doer will be judged in due time and that we humans who are flawed cannot make a true correct judgement like what Hamlet is contemplating against Claudius
Mark maybe he does care that he made a mistake but doesn't want to show that to his mother.
i dont think that hamlet killing polonius shows that he is insane, more maybe that he is getting impatient with the whole issue, he is becoming overwhelmed with the whole ordeal that doesnt necesasrily mean he is insane
I agree with mark in that Hamlet went insane in this act. I think because Hamlet doesn't show that he cares that he accidentally killed Polonius. If he was still sane then I think he would of shown some regret.
why wouldn't he want to show that to his mother hannah?
I agree with David, Hamlet isn't insane, he's just stressed out by what is going on, every conversation he has with his loved ones is a lie, in order to catch him behaving oddly, it's just getting on his nerves
I think that the point at which Hamlet truly does go insane is after the play when he finally realizes Claudius is truly guilty. Subconciously, he realizes that this is the point of no return, that he must continue along the path of revenge since he sought out whether or not Claudius did kill his father. In a way, Hamlet seems to realize that his actions after this point may cause his downfall, but he doesn't consider this in his actions.
To further show his "insanity". His mother knows him, and now that he is trying to fool everyone I think he is trying to hide what he would do normaly
I agree with Levi. Hamlet still has some morals. He doesn't just kill Claudius in the moment but has been thinking this through. Hamlet has been going over in his mind his plans for what he will do.
Perhaps he doesn't want to show his mother, but he kills the person hiding without any rational thought. Earlier he was doing nothing and now he is killing someone without thinking. Doesn't that show a change in sanity?
I don't think that Hamlet is thinking about his punishments with god at all at this point. He only cares that others get the same punishment as he does, hence why he doesn't kill Claudius during prayer
Concerning Jeff's comment, I also think that Hamlet consideres morality and religion before he acts. He doesnt kill Claudius when he is praying because he believes that Claudius will go to heaven if he kills him in prayer. This clearly shows that believes in morals.
For those of you that think that Hamlet is not insane, how do you explain the Ghost of his father reapearing, only this time no one else can see him?
I agree with david L. because i dont see Hamlet as being crazy or insane right now i think he could go crazy later on when he realizes that he missed out on taking revenge earlier.
I agree with david, Hamlet realizes it is the piont of no return, after the play, because when he goes to kill Claudius he doesn't even think twice about it.
The Ghost is no longer wearing his armor in the scene with the queen, i agree with claire that perhaps the ghost isn't even there anymore, and he just wants the approval that he did the right thing in killing Polonius, so he imagines that the ghost is there
I agree with Zach in the fact that Hamlet is somewhat hypocritical. He condones his mother for her unnatural marriage, but he is sleeping with Ophelia without being married. Also, while his murder of Polonius was not planned, Hamlet still kills an innocent man much the same as Claudius kills old King Hamlet. His words illustrate an ideal image of virtue and morals, but his actions show a different side of him entirely.
It seems ironic that Hamlet is saying that God is letting him kill Claudius, when that is what made Claudius immoral. Also, it seems ironic that God would let Hamlet commit a sin, where he would be damned because of it. Hamlet seems to be just trying to create an escape for him by doing what he knows is wrong and immoral.
Hamlet might be at this point be insane. His own mother is in the room with him while he is talking to the ghost and she doesn't see him yet when the ghost first appears Horation sees the ghost twice.
I think that Hamlet is actually becoming insane, answering what Claire brought up. Before, other people, one being Horatio, have seeen the ghost. Now, Hamlet is the only one that can see him and Gertrude can not. This might mean that Hamlet is just seing the ghost in his imagination, showing that he is crazy.
i agree with Clair and that Hamlet is insane and that this time he might be making th Ghost up this time. Before everyone could see the ghost but now his mother thinks he's crazy because she can't see who he is talking to. It may because he wants to do everything he can for his father that now he will go to any extent to do what he thinks is the right thing to do.
I agree with Mark that he has lost his sanity now that he has killed someone without thinking, in the beginning he was very methodical and coming up with these fantastic plots to find Claudius' guilt and making sure beyond any doubt that Claudius is the murderer but now he has kind of lost touch with his goals of some sort of vengeance and he feels a sense of urgency and that he is on a one way street of murder and revenge.
Steph, if he's imagining a ghost how can he not be insane? There is no amount of stress that can make someone completely loose it and start talking to a ghost that is not there
Going along with what clarie said in the circle. I think this time the ghost that Hamlet saw was not real. The fact that the ghost is wearing different clothes and that his mother does not see the ghost. Before, people saw the ghost, it does not make sense that only Hamlet can see him now unless it is Hamlet's imagination.
im gonna have to agree with steph, that hamlet isn't worried about his puinishment from God, i mean if he is planning to murder someone then it is pretty much a given that he will be punished by god after his death. (assuming his beliefs) but if he was truly worried about what god was goin to do to him then i dont think that he would be carrying out with the murder, and by him killing polonius, it just shows that his motive to kill is legit, he is not just all talk
It could also be that the ghost doesn't want to be seen by the queen, he has certain messages for certain people and in the beginning he needed Horatio see him so that he could get Hamlet, the ghost wants nothing to do with Hamlet
I think it will always be hard to determine right now whether the ghost truely exist. Hamlet is either very good at taking on the insane person or he has gotten so into it that the reader doesn't know if Hamlet's actions are based through insanity or not.
Mark, I think that him killing Polonious was just a reaction not really a change in sanity. I think that he assumed that it was Claudious since he was in the king and queen's room so I can understand why he reacted like he did.
I think maybe hamlet's mother is the the only one who cannot see the ghost because she has totally taken him out of her life and he has been replaced by his brother.
I dont think that Hamlet is feeling guilty of killing Polonius because he kind of knew that he was setting him up earlier in the scene with ophelia that i dont think he really cares anymore as long as he feels better about avenging is fathers death
I think that no one else being able to see the ghost before Hamlet kills Polonious, is Shakespeare showing us that Hamlet is going crazy and cannot control what goes on around him anymore.
Marie- Hamlet can see the ghost but Gertrude can't because the ghost is angry with her and doesn't want her to see him, his mission is to send a message to Hamlet only, I don't think that he's insane just angry
righto scott, just because hamlet acted out doesnt meant he is insane, he was in the queens room and i doubt it occured to him that polonius was chillin in the room with her, and he just assumed that it was claudius hiding in there so he felt it was a good time to kill him while he was sinning by spying on them
I think Hamlet is feeling guilty because he thought that he had killed Claudius instead of Polonius, and when he found out the truth he realizes the injustice of what he's done
I agree with Marina, Hamlet is so set on avenging his father, I don't think he cares if he had to get Polonius out of the way by killing him.
I dont think that the ghost is mad at Gertrude, he doesn't want Hamlet to punish her. Although, the ghost could want Gertrude to live through finding out that Claudius killed him and she has a very immoral marraige. I understand that the ghost wants heaven to judge Gertrude, but why doesnt the ghost want heaven to judge Claudius too?
I agree with dave, I don't think that Hamlet killed Polonius because he is crazy. I think he killed him because he thougt it was Claudius, and was going to kill him anyway.
steph, i honestly dont think hamlet cares at this point, he has already got himself in the midset to kill, and under the amount of stress he is feeling i dont really think that this "minor setback" is really going to affect him
I think that in a way Hamlet is glad he has killed Polonius because he is the reason that he cannot see Ophelia anymore. It may not have been his main goal but in a way Hamlet wants revenge over Polonius also.
I dont think is the fact that he kills Polonius that makes him insane. It is the fact that he is not sorry about it after. It's just another set back in his plan to kill cladius.
Levi- maybe he doesnt want heaven to judge Claudius because he knows Claudius will not be forgiven. His sins are too great.
I think that the ghost does want heaven to judge Claudius, but doesn't want to let him have the chance to regain his passage into heaven by living a better life. If Hamlet kills him now then he will get the oppurtunity to be judged in heaven and his life will be cut short, so that him and the ghost will be even
It seems kinda weird that Hamlet and the ghost seem to let God do His will with Gertrude, but have to take Claudius' revenge into their, Hamlet's, hands.
I think that Hamlet's apparent lack of remorse over killing Polonius proves that Hamlet has become at least partially insane. He does has morals, as we see in many of his monologues, but in his rage over his mother and his thirst for revenge, he doesn't seem to care that he killed an "innocent" man. If he were sane, I think he would at least feel guilt at this murder.
Marie that could be true but what if he really didn't love Ophelia? And what about Laeres? Wasn't he trying to "protect" her too?
The fact that Hamlet sr. doesn't want heaven to judge Claudius because the ghost of Hamlet's father is Hamlet's creation and he wants to kill Claudius because he married his mother so quickly and broke apart Hamlet's life.
why wouldnt he want claudius judged, he has obviously done wrong and in being judged, hes gonna get punished in hell
I think that after the scene that they have during the mousetrap play that Hamlet did have true feelings for Ophelia. He is miserable without her and is angry because she hurt him. If he never had true feelings for her then he wouldn't care and wouldn't taunt her so. You'll see later the relationship between Laertes and Hamlet.
It seems to me that if Hamlet really wanted to be king he would have taken power before this point. It also seems that the people would want to support the rightful heir to the throne so I don't think becoming king is real inportant to Hamlet.
I think that David makes a good point. Hamlet is becoming insane because of how he acts after he kills Polonius. I think that even if he thought he was killing Claudius he was a little insane even before he actually killed Polonius.
No matter what happens to Claudius, he will be judged by heaven, so I don't think that the ghost is trying to avoid heaven from dealing with him
Wasn't Hamlet's mother somewhat responsible too? I think that his mother is just as much to blame as Claudius is for their marriage.
I am a little tired of everyone thinking Hamlet is crazy and insane i think he is getting so frustrated to the fact that he "looks" like he is going crazy. He is so pissed off that his father was killed by his mothers new husband and he wants everyone to know the truth but people are thinking he is crying wolf and acting insane. But actually he is so mad and frustrated that no one is listening to him. He is not crazy, and he will eventually have remorse over killing Polonius but right now he is just trying to make everyone else see what he knows but no one is. And he is going to do whatever it takes to get is point across.
Kurt made a good point about divinity and becoming king. I could see how Claudius is seen as an even worse individual because not only did he kill his brother, but he over-powered God by doing so.
It seems to me that by killing Claudious "before his time" like King Hamlet it would almost help him in the after life since he didn't have time to repent for his sins.
alright steph you need to stop jacking my comments seriously
Maybe the only way Hamlet Sr. can get out of "limbo" is to get revenge and give Claudius his punishment now.
I agree Kurt's idea that Hamlet's ghost is possibly a messenger of God. By killing old Hamlet, Claudius went "above God", so to speak, to gain the throne. He was not chosen by Divine Right, but rather he usurped the throne by murder. In this way, Hamlet's quest for revenge can be seen almost as a holy quest, because he is doing God's work.
When Claudius says he needs light, I think that he really means that he has just realized his sins. It has hit him like light when it is dark. He can't stand the darkness and the sins he is dealing with, so he wants light, or freedom and innocence.
I think he is basicly just asking for light because he doesnt know what to do. and like what matt said he has "been caught by his guil" and asking guidence on where he needs to go now with his life and the actions he needs to take to make things better.
Light seems to represent heaven and goodness, and Matt makes a good point, it seems that lights seem to represent good whereas dark is bad. All sins happened in darkness, and many were dark deeds. By getting light, Claudius is trying to cleanse himself of his sinful deeds.
I think Claudius feels sorry that he was caught, not of his actions, because he still would not give up what he recieved from his sinful actions.
Levi makes a really good point, at first he was just on a mission and it didn't matter what he did to get there, but after killing polonius he realizes that he has sinned and will be judged for it
I think that Claudius saying "give me light" has a double meaning along with Leanne. Perhaps his guilt climaxes at this point, and he is reffering to light as God or redemption. He wants light because he realizes the evil of his acts, and this is also illustrated by the fact that he goes to pray after asking for light.
I also think that Claudius still wants to keep the throne even though he knows and realizes his sins. Gaining forgiveness and righting his wrong is not worth giving up the throne.
Why do you guys think Hamlet is waiting so long on killing Cladius?
I agree with Chris, Hamlet knows Claudius won't change his intentions and thats why he wants to kill him.
Claudius cannot truly repent his sins and wrongfully gaining the throne unless he gives up the object of his sins.
hes waiting to kill him because he wants to catch him in a sinful act so he doesnt kill him when he is forgivien he wants to make wure ther "timing" is premium
I think that Hamlet is waiting to kill Claudius because he is trying to deal with everything that is going on, plus he wants to find a way of killing Claudius without his family realizing who has done it.
I think that Hamlet just dragging away the body of Polonius is Shakespeare's comment on man, and how a man, Hamlet, who is fighting for man's morality, would kill someone that he was not supposed to kill and not even worry about it. It is showing the brutish quality of man.
I think that no matter who was behind that curtain Hamlet would have carried out the same action. He is quick to react and doesn't think about it. He is so tired and angry with people betraying him that he just acts upon it.
Polonius is anything but innocent, he is screwing over everyone in the entire play, and really going out of his way to bring hamlet down, i think that hamlet wouldn't have reacted differently if it was someone else behind the curtain, he just stabs who he hears scream without knowing, or caring who it was
When Hamlet kills Polonius, I truly believe that he thought he was killing Claudius. He does, however, act very rapidly when he hears the cry from behind the curtain, which is very uncharacteristic of Hamlet so far.
Caitlin- I think he is waiting to kill Claudius because he wants that right moment. To catch Claudius an act of sinning so that he is not given forgiveness.
In response to Matt's question, I do think that Hamlet would mourn his friends if they were hidden behind the curtain. Hamlet resents Polonius for his control over Ophelia and their relationship, so he doesn't care too much that he killed Polonius (along with the fact that he is going insane). If it were his friends, though, I think he would mourn because he realizes that they were honest at the beginning and told him they were spying on him, so he respects them and cares about them.
Hamlet is growing impatient with the fact of trying to find the best time to carry out his revenge on Claudius so he just releases some of that pent up rage and frustration on a random person who just happens to be Polonius
I think the fact that Hamlet's victom is behind a curtin is a symbol of how Hamlet can't see what he is doing, and I think he needs to fully see things for what they are before he makes any moves.
Hamlet holds everyone else to higher standards than he holds himself to. He gets mad about what everyone else does but does not look in the mirror and look at his own actions. Some of his actions that are questionable are killing Polonius and mistreating Ophelia and his mother.
I agree with Hannah. Hamlet doesn't exactly know what he is doing so having Polonius behind a curtian is very ironic.
If Horatio was behind the curtain would Hamlet act different?
How is he mistreating his mother SHE'S GUILTY!?
i do think that the fact that Polonius has controlled he and Ophelia's relationship from the beginning and Polonius has conspired and eavesdropped and done so many things against him that he was just tired of Polonius thats why he has no remorse.
I don't think that Hamlet is a hero in any way. What are his heroic acts? He has the trait of pursuing one main goal, but a hero has to have done something heroic in order to have a tragic downfall. He is setting the stage for his downfall but never had a peak or highpoint.
I think Hamlet would definatly act differently if he killed Horatio because he's the only one on his side.
I think that Hamlet doesn't care that he killed Polonious because of all the things that Polonious has done against him through the entire play and I think he probably wanted to kill him anyway and he set himself up to be killed by spying on him. I think that killing Polonious was Hamlet's revenge and now he can get his father's revenge.
I think that Hamlet is only a hero to his dead father, he is sacrificing his life and his judgement to get revenge for his father
I see Hamlet as tragic, but I have trouble defining him as a hero. All his actions, and often his inaction, don't really show a great noble character. The only truly noble action that we wee is his intent to avenge his father. He speaks nobly but doesn't suit actions to words
I think that Hamlet is a hero. He is more of a common man hero than Oedipus was.
Wow, Thats so true hamlet really did need to get his own matters out of the way before he could deals with his fathers buisness
Hey guy's I am sick that’s why I wasn't there today. But I believe that threw this Act and revealing of the plot we see how threw Hamlets acting crazy he finally becomes crazy. By devising a play that is pretty straight forwardly directed at Claudius with the poison in the ear and stealing of the wife and throne and all, Hamlet becoming insane doesn’t fully come until the end of the short play where Hamlet sees Claudius reaction that he fully snaps. As to the ghost appearing and only hamlet can see it, I believe that it is in his mind. He feel that he needs backing for what he has done and that backing needs to come from his father so he hallucinates this image of his father. I agree with Matt and Kyle when they say that darkness represents evil and light represents good. Kyle says how Claudius asks for the lights to be turned on during the play so that was he can almost be washed of his sins. But think of this why is it that before hamlet has only seen his father’s ghost at night, before the sun has risen. Is his father’s ghost evil then or sinful or is it just coincidence?Steph, don't you think that no matter what hamlets family and friends are going to know who killed Claudius if he mysteriously dies. I mean there is only one person that we truly see that hates Claudius enough to kill him. Unless all the people are as dumb as Oedipus then how could hamlet possibly get away with it?Emily and Caitlin, I think that there is that Hamlet waiting for Claudius to act sinfully is much more likely than any other situation. Like it was said before hamlet doesn’t want to kill Claudius and send him to heaven, he wants to kill him and dam him to hell.
I think that Hamlet putting on the play to see Claudius' reaction is brilliant. It's a way to see his confession with out him actually verbally confessing the sin that he has committed. At this point I dont think that he has gone fully crazy yet. When Hamlet sees the "ghost" i think he has finally crossed the boundry and is truly insane. I think that he the ghost was a figure of his imagination because I think on some level he wanted he father to be there because he is the only person that Hamlet can depend on and he is the only person that can guide him.
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