Tuesday, September 19, 2006

Oedipus Final Blogging...

While not participating in the fishbowl/aquarium, blog your reactions to the discussion. This will be like a live recording of the discussion. Ask questions, record reactions, as well as important arguments. Make sure if you refer to people in the discussion, refer only by first name. Have fun and show them what you know...

48 Comments:

Blogger DavidV said...

Chorus' skepticism towards Oed.-
Oed is a foreigner and people may not feel as strong a connection to him as tey did to laius.

-maybe the chorus did accept oedipus in the beginning, but as time progressed and saw that he was arrogant and felt he was superior to the gods.

September 20, 2006 11:04 AM  
Blogger chrisg said...

I agree with Mark, that the chorus was beind Oedipus until he became the obvious criminal. The thought of him as their savior and leader, so it was hard for them to be critical of him.

September 20, 2006 11:04 AM  
Blogger DavidV said...

the god issue...
capital G god is used when a singular God is mentioned, but when it is lower case it is used in reference to multiple gods

September 20, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger chrisg said...

Apollo is used to heal the city, that is why he is used, and not Zeus. Apollo tries to heal the city by telling the oracle that Oedipus was the problem.

September 20, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

Claire brought up the question What is the difference between capitalizing God and not capitalizing god?

I think it is because the people look up to the Gods. The Gods are above them and therefore the proper name is capatalized.

September 20, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

I agree with Mark. It is quite ironic that Oedipus slightly disgraces the gods by taking their name in vain. Also, it is a great observation by Claire that Oedipus demonstrates his feelings towards the gods. When he capitalizes God, it demonstrates his feelings of smallness towards the gods. However, when he spells gods with a lowercase, it shows that he reveres or respects them.

September 20, 2006 11:07 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

I agree with matt that he is like a child. Some of his actions make us believe he has a childish side

September 20, 2006 11:08 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

It is funny how everyone in Thebes goes to Pus for help. When Pus goes to the gods for help. If Pus is all that he makes himself out to be then why does he have to ask the gods for help, when he thinks he is above the gods.

September 20, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger DavidV said...

Thireseas didnt wasnt to interfere with "fate" he felt as if things needed to pan out the way they should reather then just striat up tell oedipus what was goin on and what was to happen to him

September 20, 2006 11:11 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

Would the prophesy still come true if Lauis and Jocasta didn't send Oedipus off to die? If he stayed their son, living in Thebes the entire time, would he kill his dad and still marry his mom? I think it would be a better idea to keep Oedipus with them so they can watch over the prophesy..I realize it's fate but would it still have happened if Lauis, Jocasta, and Oedipus all knew about the prophesy?

September 20, 2006 11:15 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

I agree with Chris on how Sophocles used Tyresius to show that you can have all the intelligence in the world and still not be able to see what is right in front of you.

September 20, 2006 11:17 AM  
Blogger AmyB said...

I agree with what ashley said about his kids. You never hear him mention his kids once in the novel, but once he realizes that they will be taken away from him, he is like "no don't take my children" like he never really cared until he knew he was going to lose them.

September 20, 2006 11:22 AM  
Blogger DavidV said...

laius and jocasta have a huge part in the carrying out of the tragedy.. had they not sent oedious away to be killed then they would all know the prophecy and that oedipus is for sure their son, then there is a greater chance of avoiding the situation. if he knew the actual identity of his parents, then he would have been certain not tomarry his mother.

September 20, 2006 11:22 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

When it's fate I think that you don't have a chance to do anything and that is what makes this play tragic and the lives of everyone involved in it... I don't even think that it's an option of if they kept oedipus it would have been different... you can't just go agaisnt fate.

September 20, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

Is sophocles making a point about blindess? Is it a reoccuring theme and does he use blindness to show true sight. I think he's using it as a tool to show that when you can't see with your heart you have to look in other areas

September 20, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

Matt asked why did Sophacles choose Tiresias? It could be because he is blind. Claire just brought up that maybe he is one who had to use other senses. Once you loose something you miss it and realize how much you loved it.

September 20, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger chrisg said...

From this act on instinct thought, I think a hero is someone that knows about the consequences and either decides to go with the plan, or to back away. Hopefully, the hero judges this on his values, and what it will do to the people around him.

September 20, 2006 11:23 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

A modern day hero if you relate it to superheros act with out thinking. Sometimes when the superhero sees a person in danger they act without thinking, even if it exposes their identity. They act to benefit others and save others and not to benefit themselves. When Pus killed Laius he didn't benefit himself but he did benefit the city of Thebes because he was able to solve the sphinx's riddle saving Thebes

September 20, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger AmyB said...

I think that Oedipus does try to be the top dog, he tries so hard to get everything right, that everyting he does just leads more and more to his downfall. Its good to have determintation, but in his case, its too much.

September 20, 2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

I agree that Oedipus portrays many tragic hero qualities. He doesn't really think things through and the consequences are always negative for him.

September 20, 2006 11:26 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

I completely agree with marie on the fact that you never know what you really have until it is gone. Throughout the whole book you never hear him once mention his kids. Then when he is banished and his children are to be taken away from him does he ask for them and realize how much he is going to miss them.

September 20, 2006 11:26 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

The story of Oedipus trying to fight his fate and go against whats pre-determined for him could be a parallel to how we live today. If you beleive God already has ONE specific path laid out for you, then there's nothing you can do to change that path, and you are then Oedipus when you think about it. Which leads to the bigger question that we've talked a lot about in class is : Do you beleive in fate? Is your path already laid out for you or do you have some say in the matter

September 20, 2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

Pus is all about himself. Like claire said he does good things for others to make himself look good.

September 20, 2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

I think Oedipus does make decisions that truely benefit himself. It seems it could help Thebes but I think he also realizes it will really help him. He wants to save himself and still prove that he is almight and above the rest.

September 20, 2006 11:28 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

hero?
I think it comes to down to the individuals opinion! In Some eyes Oedipus is a hero...but in others Oedipus could be a murderer and a person who made bad and gross decisions. Even though he did not know at the time but he eventually found out.



As Claire said he does things for his benefit.

September 20, 2006 11:29 AM  
Blogger chrisg said...

I think that Oedipus is less of a hero for trying to figure everything out without figuring out what the consequences would be. This seems irresponsible, and could hurt more people then it could help. He creates a plague for his city for killing his father, on instinct.

September 20, 2006 11:29 AM  
Blogger ZachM said...

I am still not sure how Oedipus is tragic. If te endpoint of his life has to be that terrible, then how are his choices tragic? The end point of his life is not good at all, so his decisions all lead to that. His fate is tragic, but his life was just leading to that. His only tragic flaw is his fate. I geuss it just goes back to the whole Fate vs. Freewill arguement.

September 20, 2006 11:30 AM  
Blogger AmyB said...

What makes Oedipus a tragic hero? I totally agree with Claire when she said that he realizes the hidden aspect of helping people. He knows that helping people will make him loved. I think he wants to please everyone so they love him, but i also think that towards the end, he is humbled and asks to be banished or killed. I think it takes a man to take his own sight, so he has to learn everything from a different aspect and he has to live with his decisions.

September 20, 2006 11:30 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

if Oedipus killed himself he would become a mardyr.

September 20, 2006 11:31 AM  
Blogger LeAnneC said...

I think that what made oepdipus a hero was that he owned up to what he did and not necesarily his actions before with people... he was a hero because was able to accept what happened to...

September 20, 2006 11:31 AM  
Blogger chrisg said...

Oedipus not taking his life is a symbol of heroism because he is trying to make up for what he did. If he would of killed himself, he would of made it easier on himself. This is different than with Antigone because she died for someone else.

September 20, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

I think Oedipus has not been truly humbled in the end. I don't think it fixes the situation if he killed himself, but he still shows pride by taking his sight and creating an example of something "great and admirable" again..i think he's still trying to be the hero..everything he has done even through the end has had a certain amount of selfishness

September 20, 2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

I agree with Melissa that everyone is going to have a different point of view. I feel that Oedipus could not represent a hero. His arrogance and pride seem to get in the way of how he can make a sensible decision. It's not until the end that he realizes his doom.

September 20, 2006 11:33 AM  
Blogger DavidV said...

although oedipus seems to be greedy, i dont think he realizes what he is doing, and that is part of his flaw. (like kurt said) he is trying his best to save thebes, and find the murderer of laius, he feels as if he was the one to save tebes the first time, and it was on his shoulders to do it again. it just seems that he has selfish reasons and the only reason it seems selfish is because ofhis personnal arrogant flaw

September 20, 2006 11:33 AM  
Blogger AmyB said...

I agree with what ashley is saying, that Oedipus is doing things for his benefit.

September 20, 2006 11:33 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

Going back to the question of whether Oedipus is selfish or not, i think he is. Everytime he talks about finding the killer and solving the problem and saving Thebes, it's in public, in front of everyone. He's only doing it so that the people of the town are there to witness it, he just talks about himself and how great he is

September 20, 2006 11:33 AM  
Blogger jeffg said...

Why doesn't Tiresias tell Oedipus about the prophecy in perfect detail?

I think it is because Tiresias doesn't want to perfectly spell it out to him because he wanted Oedipus' to be humbled. Also, Tiresias wanted Oedipus to realize the true concept of fate. And this would also make Oedipus' have faith in the gods.

September 20, 2006 11:34 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

In repsonse to Amys question it not so much that i believe in fate but that i believe that god already has a plan for each and everyone of us. The word fate almost drifts away from the fact that there is a god. fate i think was used with Pus because he really didnt think the gods were that REAL.

September 20, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger AmyB said...

I love when jeff said that sophocles is hinting at the saying seeing is not beleiving, believing is seeing. I think that he wants the readers to be able to realize that if you want to see the truth, then you have to believe in it first.

September 20, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

Oedipus poking his eyes out shows he is strong...He is living in exile...he does not take the easy way out! The easy way out would be killing himself!! He knows that his life from finding out that he is the killer of King Laius and in to the future, he will be miserable!

September 20, 2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

In the end, he becomes humbled, he leaves Thebes as previously promised, and he stabs his eyes out. Andy was talking about wanting his kids to come with him, yeah it's selfish but what else does he have left in life. Also, he treats Creon with the respect he deserves as the new leader of Thebes.

September 20, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger melissa b said...

I agree with Kirk that he did not banish himself Creon did!!


OEDIPUS IS SELFISH!!

September 20, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger EmilyW said...

blinding himself?
It's still a selfish action because he has this pain but he still wants to be in charge. He wants to be banished yet still see his daughters. It's still for him and not for the good of Thebes.

September 20, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger Amy K said...

i still think even by banishing himself..if you look how he even talks in the end..he's very self-righteous and selfish..he still thinks he's above everyone else..and you can still be a hero when he's absent from the city..maybe he wants to be remembered and still thought of as an amazing man BECAUSE "he has changed"

September 20, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger ashleyg said...

Stephanie YES! I completely agree. He only thinks about himself. It is always me me me. He does everything for the thought of how are they going to look at me for doing this, not for what will benefit them and how will it help them.

September 20, 2006 11:38 AM  
Blogger AmyB said...

I think that what Smith said about him being just as selfish at the end, then at the begining is so true. I think he still wants people to see him as a god, he still wants people to be like,"oh well he poked his eyes out, he must be sorry for his sins." No.

September 20, 2006 11:38 AM  
Blogger stephm said...

I also agree with Melissa, stabbing your eyes out is the more courageous thing to do.

September 20, 2006 11:39 AM  
Blogger sonnyw said...

I'm breaking the rules a bit, since I'm blogging this in the library (after our discussion ended). I just wanted to sum up what I feel about Oedipus.

I choose not to call Oedipus "hero," simply because that is such a weighted word. People have different defenitions of the word. Even after defining it, a hero is still something that's abstract and intangible. I don't think we can define a hero. Rather, we must "feel" who is or is not a hero. With that said, I don't think we should automatically give Oedipus the title of "hero" just because Smith tells us so. We should decide for ourselves, based on what we think of his actions, whether or not he lives up to being a hero.
Furthermore, I feel we are giving too much credit to Oedipus when we analyze his actions as "selfless." We can see that Oedipus acts on impulse. When Tiresias calls him the murderer, Oedipus doesn't take time to digest that statement. Instead, he becomes furious at Tiresias, and then at Creon for accusing him. Later in the book we see this as well, like when Oedipus curses the gods, or the sheperd who found him on Mt. Cithaeron. Because Oedipus acts without much forethought, I believe his actions are never based on the needs/wants of others, only on himself.

September 20, 2006 12:15 PM  

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