Wrongs of society
In your opinion, what are some of the greatest wrongs people can commit? (murder, theft, betrayl, revenge) What punishment would fit the crime? Make sure to react to one anothers' reponses.
posted by annes at 7:27 AM
22 Comments:
In my opinion I think the greatest wrong to commit is murder. To take a father, a mother, a sister, a brother, a friend, etc. away from their loved ones is the worst thing in the world. If someone steals something from you, the item can be replaced, a loved one who was murdered can not be replaced. They are gone forever. I believe in capital punishment, "eye for an eye" for certain crimes. Murder is without a doubt the worst thing a person can do. I think if you murder someone, it is not right for that person to sit in a cell for the rest of their lives.I know killing another man will not bring back the murdered person but I think by the murderer being killed brings a sense of peace to the family that that person hurt. I wonder what life would be like if we didn't know crime. Would we leave our houses unlocked? Would we feel safe walking down the street? Would people not need to buy expensive alarm systems? What if we didn't know what murder was? I think it would be a very different world, with fewer laws and a world with people that all got along.
I agree with Nick when he says that one of the greatest wrongs to commit is murder. I also agree that with murder should come severe consequences. When an individual takes the life of another, that person should have a punishment that is as extreme as the crime. i also think one of the greatest wrongs to commit is berayl. i think it is wrong for an indivudal to betray someone who put thier trust into them. Without betrayl in the world, people would be much more trustful to one another and the world would have less conflict in it.
I agree with nick on that murdering is the greatest crime. Murdering someone you are taking a wife, a mom, a sister, a dad, a brother, a husband away from their loved wrong is awful. One can most of the time replace the things that get stolen overcome revenge and betrayal but murdering someone is the wost thing one can do!! the punishment i think is for the murderer to live in misery and torture.
i agree with nick too, but at the same time, its almost impossible to rate what is greater when doing something wrong. I mean it really all depends on the situation and the persons morals or beliefs. To some murdering is what they feel is the best thing to do, as horrible as that sounds, in some sad cases its true. So i personally think that whatever the worst thing is, all depends on the persons judgement and beliefs. Some kill out of their religion or love for they're country, and they think its fine because they have a justified reason.
Murder and to rape or maulest and nothing can fix them once it is done someone is lost and someone new arises from it but either way something valueble is talken wether it is life, confidance, trust, virginaty, dignaty, etc... something is lost. Yet in some instances a new person is born that understands life and love and the thing a whole lot better whether happieness arises from it i do not know. yet it can never be fixed.
The worst wrong to me is murder. Not only is it morally wrong but it is taking away the thing that people are gifted with, life. This means that the murderer is trying to be like God who I believe is the only one who has the right to take life away since I think that he gave life to us. Like Marie I don't think there is any way for us to properly punish murderers because we don't really have the right to kill them if we are going to say murder is wrong. I believe that murderers will get their due punishment after they die.
I think that Marie makes a good point. Theft is quite a large category that many sins can fall into. Murder is theft of someone's life, stealing is obviously theft, and sexual sins are theft of someone else's purity. Unfortunately, these things are constantly happening and it is quite hard to avoid being affected in one way or another, whether by oneself or someone else's actions.
Sonny, I think that you are picking away at this question a bit too much. First of all, of course all life forms natural daily habits include taking the life of something else. And of course some life forms are more important than others. I agree that most everything has it's purpose and value in all life on earth, yet some things are less important than others. For example, a human's life is more important than some paramecium's life. Taking the life of other creatures or organisms is just part of the game of life. Everyone has to sacrifice something to continue in this game. We all have to survive and at times, killing other creatures is absolutely necessary.
Also, I have a question. It seems that everyone is agreeing in one way or another that taking the life of something is the worst possible wrong or sin. Though I agree, I still think there are a few loop holes. What about pulling the plug on someone who is on life support? Is that unfair to that person but fair to the family? What about taking a dog's life when it is suffering from a disease or sickness that it cannot overcome? What about killing an innocent squirrel that is having an uncontrollable ceasure after being hit by a car? Though we all agree taking the life of something is the worst sin, can't we all agree that it is necessary and fair for some creatures to have their life taken away? Or is it more fair for them to fight for their life, knowing the have no chance at living, and allow them to suffer until death?
What about capitol punishment, or the death penalty?
Huh?! Huh?!
I believe that there are many terrible wrongs or sins that people can commit. The question of what is the worst is very hard to answer. In the Bible the ten commandments spell out, in my opinion, some of the worst sins that a person can commit. Taking someone's life is definitely a terrible sin but I do not think that, "an eye for an eye" in this situation is best. If a murderer is forced to live in misery in prison for the rest of their life, I think that that might be a better way to punish them. Maybe they will eventually realize their wrong doing. Throughout all of the sin, I think that what the focus should be is on forgiveness. Do you guys think people who commit murder or other horrible sins can not be forgiven? Are there any unforgivable sins?
Reacting to Sonny's comments, I would not go so far as to say that killing a plant or bug is just like killing a person. When you walk down the street you have probably stepped on some ants or bugs, does that make you a murderer? Although the question of where to draw the line is intriguing, I would think that most of you would agree taking it to that level is going a little overboard.
In my opinion, murder, assault, or rape of a young child is the worst sin a person can commit. Everyone looks at children as beautiful and precious, much more so than we do with adults. Why? Because of their innocence. Not to bring religion into this again, but I believe that childhood is the time when we are closest to God, because we have not yet discovered the evils of the world and we live a life mainly free of sin. By committing crimes like these against innocent children, a person might take the life of that child before they have a chance to live, or they might expose the child to the evils of the world. Without these kind of sins, it seems to me that more people would live virtuous lives because they wouldn't be exposed to such evil ideas.
Along the lines of what Scott was saying, who are we to decide whether a person should be killed because they commit a certain crime? I think God is the ultimate person who must decide, and while we obviously can't let murderers and rapists roam free, I don't think we have the right to take one person's life to avenge another person's life.
So it looks like mostly everyone feels that murder is the worst "wrong" that a person can commit. I guess I would agree with that, that taking someones life is probably the worst thing you can do. But i dont neccesarily agree with marie and some of the rest of you, that everything can be considered theft. For example, on a small scale, if someone vandalizes property, what have they taken? The cleanliness of the property. Please.
About the punishment for crimes tho i agree with Levi that "an eye for an eye" is not necessarily the best way to punish someone. On a literal level with the vandalism, if your getting punished for it then does that mean you get your property messed with? Probably not.
Even though everyone is right when they say murder is the biggest crime a person could do, any crime is wrong. Our society is based upon crime and it is all that is heard from the news and all around us. I think when we hear about a murder it is the biggest crime, only beacuse something has been taken that can not be given back. The only punishment that a murderer can receive besides prison is being sent to hell or sent to suffer. Even though our government does give out death penalties, I think it is wrong beacuse it does not bring the life back of the person who was murdered.
I agree with Jeff as well as Marie in that theft is more than a crime of poperty. When I think of the worst possible crime a person can commit, I personally think of rape or torture. When a person is raped, their soul is in an essence stolen from them, much like what Jeff and Marie said. I know most people believe that murder is the worst crime, but not meaning to sound morbid or uncaring, when someone is murdered they don't have to go on living with the memory. I know that a murder causes many to suffer, including those who loved that person who was murdered, but when someone is traumatically hurt in a rape or tourture instance, not only are they scared for life, but those who they love hurt as well. I know a rape victim, and although she has grown dramatically since her assault, her fear has trancended to me and others I know. Perhaps I am bias because of my own connections, but I believe stealing a person's soul is worse than any other crime that may be commited.
Murder, theft, betrayl, and revenge all fall under the category of the worst sins that can be committed. In one way or another they all deal with each other. When you murder someone you are taking their life, which is not yours to take (theft). Betrayl is almost always followed by revenge which commonly is followed by murder. I personally think that betrayl is the worst of all. There is no feeling worse than the one when you feel you are betrayed. Whether it is by a loved one or friend, it hurts! In Hell, if you have betrayed someone you should have the punishment of just being stabbed in the back (not actually) left and right. You should be given the feeling that you cannot trust anyone. You should have a huge task/game thing to accomplish and in this your team in no way works together and helps you out. I don't know... I think it is kind of odd that we are thinking of/proposing punishments that should "go down" in Hell.
It seems that everyone believes that murder is the worst possible wrong someone could committ. I cannot agree with them, and like Ashley, I think that betrayal is the worst possible thing a person can do to another. Also, like Jess said, someone who is murdered cannot remember being murdered, while someone betrayed does. Not only that but a betrayed person may be so affected by it that they never trust anyone, even those closest to them, ever again. Or may choose not to believe that they have been betrayed and basically live the rest of their life in a lie. And, like Jess, I also have personal connections to someone who was greatly betrayed, and to this day (about 18 years later) it is obvious that she is still deeply hurt by it. As for punishment for such a crime, I don't know, I liked Ashley's idea of stabbing these people in the back (only I mean literally) over and over again. Maybe though, they should feel the emotional (and in some cases physical) pain that they caused over and over again.
Don't get me wrong, I think murder is terrible too, and ranks second in my book of most terrible things one could do to another. But when you think about it, in most cases murder is betrayal. Often the murderer is someone close to the victim: a spouse, child, sibling, parent, or a close friend. And like a lot of people, I do not believe in the death penalty. Mostly because I believe that because God granted life he should be the one to take it. However, in some extreme cases, I do believe in making the criminal suffer (mostly mentally, I think it tends to be more effective). As for the comments about what is considered murder, such as putting a dog down, I'm not sure what I think about that. In one instance it is easy to see a human above any animal in importance, but maybe that is only because it is another human. For all we know a dog, cat, or platypus sees us in the same way we see them: "They're not a platypus, so what do I care if they die." Just a thought. I guess my point is that every creature (both individually and as a species) live for one reason: to live. All animals do everything in their power to survive, including humans, which of course includes harming other living things. I don't think that we should be considered murderers because we a cow or pig every now and than, should a cow be called a murderer because it eats grass, that's a living thing too isn't it? I think murder is different, when we eat an animal, or even a plant, we are doing it for survival. Murder in my eyes is killing for no particular purpose, especially not for survival. Now, I know someone is going to bring this up, so I'll beat you to it: Cannibalism. Honestly, I don't know what to think, on the one hand your killing a fellow human, but on the other your eating for survival (maybe), I'll have to think about that one for a while.
Sorry, I got WAY deeper into this whole thing than I though I would. But it is pretty interesting, I just hope someone will respond to it.
If you punish someone by stabbing them in the back for what they have done isn't that a form of revenge? So Ashley and Kyle, wouldn't that be a sin? Is punishment a form of revenge? or should we categorize it differently?
I think that betryal and murder are some of the greatest wrongs that people commit. I realize that everyone commits betryal and as Zach said,"it's the circle of life." However, when you are betraying someone that has done nothing to you, it's as if you are robbing them of what they deserve and you are acting in greed for your own benefit. I agree with Kyle and Jess, that people have to live through betryal and trust is such a hard thing to give to someone and to take advantage of that trust is wrong.
As for putting down animals, I don't think that is murder. usually when you are putting an animal to sleep you are putting them out of suffering and you commit this action out of love not hatred.
I guess my opinions have pretty much already been expressed. I do feel that killing another person (especially if it is premeditated) is the worst wrong someone can do. Killing out of self defense or in a war-like situation can be justified to me, but in the end, you are still ending their life; you are taking away at the very least somebodies daughter/son friend. So rather than committing a crime against one person, you are commiting a crime against their whole family, their friends, their loved ones.
As far as punishment for murdering another person, i cannot say i would know how i feel, not having somebody i know murdered... however, punishment is called for. Maybe Capital punishment is correct in some situations but "taking an eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind"- Socrates (i think correct me if im wrong). But wouldnt living in jail for the rest of your life be a worse punishment than death?
Sonny, those are some delightfully controversial questions you have devised. Let me take a moment to answer them to the best of my ability.
You presented the question of "Why do we make the assumption that all life is not equal?". Well to answer this I will first state the fact that since this discussion is relating to the Divine Comedy, we have to assume the fact that Heaven and Hell are real places, and that God exists. With this in mind, our idea of superior life goes back to the Bible. In fact, God himself has created this separation in the importance of life on the Earth. "Then God blessed Noah and his sons and told them, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth. All the animals of the earth, all the birds of the sky, all the small animals that scurry along the ground, and all the fish in the sea will look on you with fear and terror. I have placed them in your power. I have given them to you for food, just as I have given you grain and vegetables."(Genesis 9:1-3). In this verse we are told that God has given us domain over the animals of the earth and all other life that is not human. Since this belief comes from the Bible, I believe that Dante would have been familiar with it and would have had it in mind when considering the severity of murder and its consequences. So to answer your question: yes. Our lives are more important than those of dogs or paramecium. But for the record, while we do have domain over them, I see it as entirely wrong when animals or other life is abused and misused for no reason. This in itself though could spawn a debate as to what is considered abuse, but I think we can all agree on some general lines that shouldn't be crossed.
At this same time, I thought it interesting that while typing about the abuse of animals, I considered my puppy. I thought about how if I were to see someone abuse her or kill her, I would beat the person within an inch of their life with any blunt object within my reach, and depending upon what they did to her I might find myself unable to leave that last inch. But I realized that my actions would have revealed that we ourselves sometimes choose how to rank the importance of life. What should be an animal under my power has become nothing short of a family member. Upon death or injury, I would react no different than I would were it my human little sister. So beyond a level of God drawing the line of importance of life, I think we re-draw the lines sometimes due to the situations and conditions we are presented with. Ultimately I believe that when we still judge the topic of murder and how it applies to all life, our individual perspectives don't play a role. God is the one who ultimately has decided what is sin and what is not.
Concerning the ever present topic of Capital Punishment, it seems that most people believe it to be wrong. However, it seems that the general consensus is that it is murder in itself. I don't believe this is true. God himself instituted the idea of Capital Punishment. Amazingly enough, he did so in the verses immediately following the verses in which he separates the importance of life between animals and human. "I will require the blood of anyone who takes another person’s life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die. If anyone takes a human life, that person’s life will also be taken by human hands. For God made human beings in his own image."(Genesis 9:5-6). This verse undeniably allows for the deaths of murderers. Many people have said that it is wrong for the fact that we are playing God, and yet God himself has ordained this punishment. It is true that it is God's right to take life, and so it is subsequently right to do so since He, being the only one that can give such a right, has given it to us. However, I believe that in the society of today, it is the Government's position to deal this judgment, as we cannot and should not take the law into our own hands. God appointed the government and other authorities to be tasked with this.
I'd love to know what you guys think about this (agree, disagree, etc.). Do you think Dante knew these things? Why is it that Dante himself doesn't place the murderers in the lowest circle of Hell? Has public view of murder changed so drastically since the 1300's?
Wow, murder is the worst crime, huh? I sit here wondering why and how everyone can agree on practically the same point (excluding the betrayal-haters out there). I guess it makes logical sense, that taking the life of a human being is the worst sin possible. I mean, it is the end of someone's life ON EARTH. By the way, reacting to Sonny's comments and those who have also responded - killing human beings is much different than that of an animal or plant for one huge reason. In my opinion, humans have souls which set us apart. We have a future beyond death and earth. So it is different.
Anyway, shifting back to why everyone agrees on murder being the worst, shows us that murder makes logical sense. But, what if logic doesn't belong in a conversation like this? It seems to be another spiritual question which tests our beliefs as opposed to our ability to think correctly. Therefore, I turn to the source of my beliefs: the Bible. Someone brought up the fact that the Ten Commandments are in there listing ten sins, however after looking through the test, the greatest two commandments are love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourelf. Therefore I would say the two worst sins are rejecting God and hating others.
After looking at my beliefs and not my logic, I find myself concluding that murder is not the worst sin, therefore disagreeing with almost everyone. I also think it is interesting that this conversation has evolved into a little argument of capitol punishment, most people thinking of how to punish the killers now as opposed to after earth. But, I guess the betrayal-haters went with the hellish punishments.
I've been taught that all sins are sins in the eyes of God. Murder, rape, theft, deceit, all the above are ALL sins. Whether we are telling a "small" type of lie to get us out of trouble or we have taken the life of someone else, both are sinning and both are wrong. On earth, we set up our own scale to measure the degree of sin that people can commit. Almost every single person said that murder is the worst thing you could ever do because it is taking the life of another person, and im sure everyone would agree that telling a little white lie is a lot different than taking someone's life. I agree, but at the same time, ALL of it is still sinning in the eyes of God. No one on earth is perfect and I think we are quick to judge people based on their actions when only God knows the heart. I'm definitely NOT condoning murder, rape, theft, deciet, etc..im simply saying that, at least for me, there have been many times i have judged people when only God has the power on Judgement Day....I like the fact that Sonny comes out and makes a controversial statement about the possibility that ALL life is equal...i disagree with it, and I believe in exactly what Matt said in Genesis, but I like the fact that his answer is different from everyone else's. I think it's really important to ask really controversial questions and bring up points just to make people think outside the one question that's posted on the blog...As far as responding to Matt goes, I completely agree with every point he made and the back up of those statements with the Bible..and a huge part of me thinks that Dante did realize these things based on his interpretation of hell..i think he probably spent a lot of time researching, questioning, etc to form those beliefs and i do think, kindof like i said before, that people have formed new ideas about murder and the worst sins
I do not know if you can say that one sin is the greatest wrong of all. They all can be done in malice and ill-spirits, but there are also sins that can be commited for the right reasons. For example, murder is one of the worst crimes that can be commited. You are taking someones life, when it is not your place to do so. You are leaving that person's family and friends in mourning and sadness. But what if you had to kill someone because they tried to attack your child. Nobody would just stand there and let this person hurt their child. You would defend your child and if that meant killing the other person, that is what you would do. So I think the punishment of the crime has to be dealt with individually on the circumstances of the crime. I do not think that God would just say every murderer, no matter what happened, has to stay in the seventh layer of hell for all eternity.
To answer the question I agree with Kyle and Ashley that betrayal is the worst thing a person can do. I think my definition of betrayal is slightly different than theirs though. I believe that betraying God or your faith is the worst sin anyone can commit and yet it happens all the time. The majority of our country claims they are Christian, of some sort, and yet if you were to just look around it is obvious that is not true.
Sonny's comment about how "each life has a different value depending on who or what possesses it" struck me as very interesting. This seems to imply that there are people that may deserve death more than others. Are these the guilty people on death row or just that person that you don’t like here in school? Who gets to set the value of a person's life and does that person's actions or sins affect the value of that life? One of the sayings I have picked up through my faith is "Love the sinner, hate the sin." I take it to mean that all human life is equally valuable and we should not be the ones to judge because we are all sinners. Only God can judge every one of us on judgment day.
Do you think God is worried about some sentences regarding our desire for separation of church and state? Both are his anyway, but I see what you're getting at.
All-together, I have to agree that when viewed from every possible angle, while betrayal seems to be the worst sin out there, Amy makes an excellent point that all sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord. Thus the punishment is equal for all who have sinned, regardless of which particular sins they have actually committed.
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